Iceland flights cancelled...what to do?
Dec 2, 2007 | 7:20 am
#31
Join Date: Jan 2005
Programs: AA-EXP, LATAM Gold+, BA-Blues
Posts: 736
When BA cancelled their franchise with Regional Air, they automatically rebooked me onto other carriers between JNB and NBO (SAA one way, AirKenya the other, if I remember correctly)...
It was on a QF issued xONEx... BA did all the work on the ticket, and reissued it on their stock, with flights booked on the other carriers.
I would take this matter up directly with BA...they should be willing and able to fix it. (It would surprise me if AA did the protecting in this case, as the cancellations weren't theirs).
It was on a QF issued xONEx... BA did all the work on the ticket, and reissued it on their stock, with flights booked on the other carriers.
I would take this matter up directly with BA...they should be willing and able to fix it. (It would surprise me if AA did the protecting in this case, as the cancellations weren't theirs).
Dec 2, 2007 | 8:34 am
#32
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Soon to be LEGT
Posts: 10,928
I think it's unlikely that a court is going to find the contract to be unconscionable or a contract of adhesion, and "reform" it so that it states what the OP believes is "fair" (whatever that means). I think it's even less likely that such a judgment would be sustained on appeal. That doesn't mean the OP shouldn't argue his case to the airlines and anyone else who will listen, but I would be really surprised if anyone thinks it's a good idea for the OP actually to sue BA. What if he loses and BA countersues for its attorneys' fees? I'm not saying the OP should capitulate or hoist the white flag quite yet, but he shouldn't look for a remedy in the courts.
He should have no trouble winning this case at an English court (small claims court procedure being a very efficient way of doing it) but I have no clue as to the precise US laws/procedures that may apply to it if it was sold in the US.
Dec 2, 2007 | 10:45 am
#34
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Programs: AA EXP 3 MM; Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium Elite
Posts: 18,588
I think it's unlikely that a court is going to find the contract to be unconscionable or a contract of adhesion, and "reform" it so that it states what the OP believes is "fair" (whatever that means). I think it's even less likely that such a judgment would be sustained on appeal. That doesn't mean the OP shouldn't argue his case to the airlines and anyone else who will listen, but I would be really surprised if anyone thinks it's a good idea for the OP actually to sue BA. What if he loses and BA countersues for its attorneys' fees? I'm not saying the OP should capitulate or hoist the white flag quite yet, but he shouldn't look for a remedy in the courts.
Dec 2, 2007 | 10:59 am
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Soon to be LEGT
Posts: 10,928
I am not a lawyer, but I have done a bit of reading in contract law, and the case is 101% clear cut. Consideration is the key word.
Read the basics here or get a contract law textbook for more info.
Small claims procedure in England costs very little, no solicitor is required and costs aren't awarded unless the case is deemed frivolous and/or the losing party declines multiple offers of out-of-court settlement.
Last edited by graraps; Dec 2, 2007 at 11:07 am
Dec 2, 2007 | 11:01 am
#36
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,083
I have been thinking more about this.
Once the ticket is issued I think [non-weather / acts-of-God] cancellations, whether 4 months in advance or 2 hours in advance fall under 'some sort of rule 80 or rule 240'...not OneWorld rules...OneWorld rules applie before ticket purchase or if both the passenger and airline both agree to make some sort of change.
I know these rules (80/240) are no longer written [or hard to find if they are], but basically the common sense version is that if an airline promised to get you to a place more or less on a day at more or less a specific time they need to figure out [pay] how to do that. I think a jury would agree with that and thus why airlines follow a version of these rules even if not written out--in my experience [i.e. on a same day cancellation DONE ticket AA put me on a NWA flight].
In this case it is up to the flyer to get relief from AA and from AA to get relief from BA.
Once the ticket is issued I think [non-weather / acts-of-God] cancellations, whether 4 months in advance or 2 hours in advance fall under 'some sort of rule 80 or rule 240'...not OneWorld rules...OneWorld rules applie before ticket purchase or if both the passenger and airline both agree to make some sort of change.
I know these rules (80/240) are no longer written [or hard to find if they are], but basically the common sense version is that if an airline promised to get you to a place more or less on a day at more or less a specific time they need to figure out [pay] how to do that. I think a jury would agree with that and thus why airlines follow a version of these rules even if not written out--in my experience [i.e. on a same day cancellation DONE ticket AA put me on a NWA flight].
In this case it is up to the flyer to get relief from AA and from AA to get relief from BA.
Dec 2, 2007 | 12:04 pm
#38
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Soon to be LEGT
Posts: 10,928
A contract can be voided for a number of specific reasons (e.g. misrepresentation or illegal terms), and the whim of one of the parties isn't included in the list.
If you can find me any statute or case that contradicts this part, or this part, or this part of the Sale Of Goods Act 1979, I'll grant you that the chances of winning this are less than 100%.
Dec 2, 2007 | 2:55 pm
#40
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Soon to be LEGT
Posts: 10,928
Believe me, I can see where you're coming from. And I'm not trying to defend BA on this issue, but just trying to give an honest opinion of where people stand. Route withdrawals are not a unique phenomenen to BA. The offer of 'just' a refund is not a stance unique to BA in these circumstances. [ These kind of instances have been happening for years and years and on a whole multitude of airlines. I realise the fact that something has always happened does not mean it's right both morally and legally.
The Sale of Goods Act has been supplemented by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, and it clearly includes things like "future goods", "perishable goods", and "services".
Dec 4, 2007 | 3:15 pm
#42
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,083
A lawyer friend of mine is actually interested in maybe pursuing this [generally, not specific to Iceland] as a class action. I told him I am not interested because I think generally AA will stand behind the product to something as obvious as a cancellation to where no one in the OneWorld team no longer flies. We will see...
Dec 11, 2007 | 4:55 pm
#43
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8
Don't be fooled by KEF's website
KEF is ONLY served by FI and FI Exp. Iceland is the only country in the world that has only ONE airline this is regardless of what the KEF airport website tells you.
No other carrier wants to fly there , therefore FI treats their customers like cattle or worse !!!
Numerous times I was stuck at KEF to the point that I quit a project doing because of NO options of getting there/out of there on any other carrier but FI.
No other carrier wants to fly there , therefore FI treats their customers like cattle or worse !!!
Numerous times I was stuck at KEF to the point that I quit a project doing because of NO options of getting there/out of there on any other carrier but FI.
Dec 12, 2007 | 1:48 am
#44
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,083
KEF is ONLY served by FI and FI Exp. Iceland is the only country in the world that has only ONE airline this is regardless of what the KEF airport website tells you.
No other carrier wants to fly there , therefore FI treats their customers like cattle or worse !!!
Numerous times I was stuck at KEF to the point that I quit a project doing because of NO options of getting there/out of there on any other carrier but FI.
No other carrier wants to fly there , therefore FI treats their customers like cattle or worse !!!
Numerous times I was stuck at KEF to the point that I quit a project doing because of NO options of getting there/out of there on any other carrier but FI.
Dec 12, 2007 | 2:24 am
#45
Join Date: May 2005
Location: BRU
Programs: A3/Gold, BA/Gold + other less precious metals
Posts: 2,644
KEF is ONLY served by FI and FI Exp. Iceland is the only country in the world that has only ONE airline this is regardless of what the KEF airport website tells you.
No other carrier wants to fly there , therefore FI treats their customers like cattle or worse !!!
Numerous times I was stuck at KEF to the point that I quit a project doing because of NO options of getting there/out of there on any other carrier but FI.
No other carrier wants to fly there , therefore FI treats their customers like cattle or worse !!!
Numerous times I was stuck at KEF to the point that I quit a project doing because of NO options of getting there/out of there on any other carrier but FI.
