I currently am holding BDL/ORD/NRT/BKK, return BKK/NRT(1 week layover)/DFW/BDL J class for the most flying JAL on miles. I did not have them check CX, and have been advised that I should, as I will be upping to First class, and CX is superior. Comments?

Cyn

CX F is far superior to CX J. JL F is excellent on some routes (comparable to CX F) and not so good on other routes (closer to CX J than to CX F). CX F is mostly the same on all routes, without the large variations of JL F. But for an award you will find difficulty in getting availability on the good routes on either CX or JL F.

Historically JL5/6 JFK-NRT has had one of the very best F services (while the other JFK-NRT flight, forget the flight number, had a considerably worse F service). Some of the JL F service elements have been dropped in the past year (for example, the Sony VR visors are gone, they were too unreliable). Plus some of the JL F service is very japanese (zen-like, contemplating a single grain of rice on a plate kind of service), which while very luxurious might not appeal to western tastes. CX F is more international and you can have as much or as little chinese influence as you want (though some of the best elements are chinese).

Any chance you know how the JFK-GRU route is on JAL? Thanks

No idea, I never investigated this route. Also JL does change service on routes periodically. ORD-NRT used to be a 2nd class F route, for example, but I've heard that it has been upgraded to the better F service. JL does this as policy (a measure of a route's profitability, I suppose), as both the hard and soft product aspects change (they could do the soft product even with the old equipment, but choose not to; so the AA 777 coffins vs. suites that causes so much consternation on FT is a minor niggle compared to the JL difference in F product between flights). It isn't a division between long and short-haul service, or even by city pair (I know for a fact that 2 flights on the same route at different times of day had a big difference in F service level). JL is a very quirky airline.

number_6 -

Would I be correct to assume that NRT-LAX/SFO would be considered second class F routes for JL? Thanks.

JL5/6, 9/10 are different indeed. Everyone pays full fare that would explain why JL does so.

I don't know, I'm boycotting JL except for a couple of flights that I know are good ... it is a sleazy way to do business to have a "bait and switch" F product. At least on some routes, such as NRT-HNL, there is fair warning that it is a different product (flight operated by Jalways instead of JL; a bit like QF and Jetstar). I suspect that the current set of premium routes is LHR-NRT, JFK-NRT and ORD-NRT but I don't know if there are others. JL is not helpful in answering this question (rather, reservations thinks there is no difference between the various F services). I'm not exaggerating in stating that the worst JL F service is almost like CX J, so there is quite a difference.

Francophile: What do you mean by "second class F"?

And Number_6 - you're boycotting because of bait&Switch? Can you expand on that a little for me>

Thanks -


Cyn

As for the scam... Here's what always in my mind:
If you do not expect too much you will not be disappointed.

JL is not helpful? No, they just don't know what to do in case of emergency. You'd be able to understand that operating 8 different configurations on 10 different routes without spare is a quite challenging job.(I'm not talking about its entire fleet, it is 744 alone.) Yes, just one irregular operation(weather/mechanical/etc) screws everything.

I'd like to hear your NRT~HNL story, could you be more specific?

They're saying that JL F on some flights is better than JL F on other flights (calling the latter "second class F"). JL just sells F and doesn't tell you if you're getting the good F or bad F, so it seems like a bait and switch tactic.

AA is telling me that the flights between NRT & BKK do not have a first class on JAL - all that is available is Business. Is this what you're talking about, or is it actually differences in first class on their flights that have 3 classes of service? (Sorry to be so dense!)

Cyn

The original discussion was about the different F products, sold as F (and at the same price!) on various flights/routes. About 10% of JL's F service is the good F, and 90% of flights are the bad F (not the best odds). Most airlines have a more consistent F product offered on all routes, but JL has chosen to have a really mixed-up service.

Your issue, of F not being offered on certain routes on certain days of the week or month of the year, is a different one. JL used to have 3-class F service NRT-BKK (also NRT-SIN and NRT-HKG), but it may be seasonal or only on certain flights. I haven't checked their current timetable. JL has been in financial difficulty in the past 2 years (leading to a change in management), and has been dropping some of the shorter F routes, so it is quite possible that no F exists for NRT-BKK these days. CX offers a few flights with F (HKG-BKK) and most are J and not F -- you will have a hard time finding any F awards into BKK.

Prompting another question:

What is the difference between "good" and "bad" F on JAL?

I have seen what you mean about the lack of availability of F into BKK - CX offers it, but only if I want to go to HongKong first. I can't see the point of that stopover, so I think I'm going to have to stick to JAL.

Cyn

You don't have to worry about the difference, awards are almost all on the bad F flights on JL. The good F flights sell out and only a handful of award seats a year are on those flights. The difference is in both the hard and soft product (eg. catering is different on the good F flights, with a much higher dollar spend by JL).

[QUOTE=number_6]You don't have to worry about the difference, awards are almost all on the bad F flights on JL. QUOTE]

I am still curious though.