Does 8/10 mark the end of oneWorld?
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: AA PLT; UA Gold
Posts: 5,378
Does 8/10 mark the end of oneWorld?
oneWorld relies on LHR at its international connecting point. The U.S. government has told us we are in the "Long War" now. What this means is that while the details and plots may fluctuate from month to month, incidents like 8/10, and massive overreaction to those incidents, will continue for the foreseeable future.
At the same time, the fact that the UK is the most well-recognized US ally seems to make it a huge terrorist target going forward.
So my question is, given that terrorists seem to feel less animosity towards the countries where the other alliances are hubbed (Netherlands, France, Germany) than they do towards the UK (and US), will passengers shift to the other alliances during the upcoming years? Will anyone want to transit through LHR over the next years or even decades, given the onerous restrictions that are imposed in knee-jerk fashion whenever a threat is squashed?
At the same time, the fact that the UK is the most well-recognized US ally seems to make it a huge terrorist target going forward.
So my question is, given that terrorists seem to feel less animosity towards the countries where the other alliances are hubbed (Netherlands, France, Germany) than they do towards the UK (and US), will passengers shift to the other alliances during the upcoming years? Will anyone want to transit through LHR over the next years or even decades, given the onerous restrictions that are imposed in knee-jerk fashion whenever a threat is squashed?
#3
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: YVR occasionally
Programs: OW Emerald (AA-EXP, BA-Gold)
Posts: 261
Given that these concerns might result in a reduction in the popularity of the OW alliance, a more optimistic way of looking at it is that it might cause those in charge to re-think the escalating prices of xONEx tickets.
#4
Original Member
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Location: Portland OR Double Emerald (QF and AA), DL PM/MM, Starwood Plat
Posts: 19,589
Originally Posted by justageek
...So my question is, given that terrorists seem to feel less animosity towards the countries where the other alliances are hubbed (Netherlands, France, Germany) than they do towards the UK (and US), will passengers shift to the other alliances during the upcoming years?
VIE (airport attack using machine guns on waiting pax) 1985
FCO (similar to VIE but targeting the El Al ticket counter) 1985
So a Star hub and a Skyteam hub have been attacked (with dozens of pax killed). I cannot recall any other successful attacks on airports (there was a shooting at LAX a few years ago, but it was personal and not terrorist action, and there have been attacks in Sri Lanka and Phillipines but not related to the current threat.
So how much impact did Star and Skyteam suffer from those attacks in 1985? Have you been avoiding travel to VIE or FCO since then? Time passes, and it makes little or no difference in the long run (in my opinion).
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SFO
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Posts: 5,378
Originally Posted by bcmatt
bmi (UK), US Airways and United (US) are all members of Star Alliance, so it too must be at risk of collapse. Clearly the only way forward is to all join SkyTeam!!
#7
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: AMS
Programs: Flying Blue Gold
Posts: 1,849
Originally Posted by justageek
FRA is the major connecting point for Star for US-Europe pax.
I guess I had been overwhelmed so many speculative, overreacting and at times hysterical threads on FT today that I finally snapped and had to make a snarky comment somewhere . Glancing at some posts today, you would think that 10/08 () marked the end of the world, not just OW!
As somebody living in the country which has the most draconian restrictions at the moment, I plan to make decisions and assumptions after we have experienced a bit more than than just 36+ hours of the situation.
Topic?: I'll reserve judgement for the moment on fate of OW!
#8
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: SYD
Programs: DJ, QF, SPG, Hilton
Posts: 2,984
OP described recent events at over-reaction and may cause the collapose of OW.
By the same extend, did 9/11 kill off air travel? People were saying the same after 9/11. Now, the air travel business is arguably better than before.
Don't you think the logic is a bit of an over-reaction too?
By the same extend, did 9/11 kill off air travel? People were saying the same after 9/11. Now, the air travel business is arguably better than before.
Don't you think the logic is a bit of an over-reaction too?
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 11,242
Originally Posted by Leumas
OP described recent events at over-reaction and may cause the collapose of OW.
By the same extend, did 9/11 kill off air travel? People were saying the same after 9/11. Now, the air travel business is arguably better than before.
Don't you think the logic is a bit of an over-reaction too?
By the same extend, did 9/11 kill off air travel? People were saying the same after 9/11. Now, the air travel business is arguably better than before.
Don't you think the logic is a bit of an over-reaction too?
So maybe the logic isn't so much of an overreaction.
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,934
Originally Posted by justageek
oneWorld relies on LHR at its international connecting point. The U.S. government has told us we are in the "Long War" now. What this means is that while the details and plots may fluctuate from month to month, incidents like 8/10, and massive overreaction to those incidents, will continue for the foreseeable future.
At the same time, the fact that the UK is the most well-recognized US ally seems to make it a huge terrorist target going forward.
So my question is, given that terrorists seem to feel less animosity towards the countries where the other alliances are hubbed (Netherlands, France, Germany) than they do towards the UK (and US), will passengers shift to the other alliances during the upcoming years? Will anyone want to transit through LHR over the next years or even decades, given the onerous restrictions that are imposed in knee-jerk fashion whenever a threat is squashed?
At the same time, the fact that the UK is the most well-recognized US ally seems to make it a huge terrorist target going forward.
So my question is, given that terrorists seem to feel less animosity towards the countries where the other alliances are hubbed (Netherlands, France, Germany) than they do towards the UK (and US), will passengers shift to the other alliances during the upcoming years? Will anyone want to transit through LHR over the next years or even decades, given the onerous restrictions that are imposed in knee-jerk fashion whenever a threat is squashed?
#11
Moderator, Hilton Honors
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Posts: 71,422
I think you're overreacting. The current restrictions will be temporary, at least in their form now.
As an analogy, a lot of people find the US immigration and international transfer process extremely inconvenient and annoying. Some even go to great lengths to avoid US as much as possible. Has it seen the collapse of all the alliances (since they all have US-based airlines)? No of course it hasnt.
As an analogy, a lot of people find the US immigration and international transfer process extremely inconvenient and annoying. Some even go to great lengths to avoid US as much as possible. Has it seen the collapse of all the alliances (since they all have US-based airlines)? No of course it hasnt.
#12
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Originally Posted by sdsearch
The other question is: Can OW figure out that they need to diversity their European transfer points from LHR somewhat to offset this? It's because OW chose to rely on LHR so heavily that they've now got this problem.
#13
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Originally Posted by Kiwi Flyer
As an analogy, a lot of people find the US immigration and international transfer process extremely inconvenient and annoying. Some even go to great lengths to avoid US as much as possible. Has it seen the collapse of all the alliances (since they all have US-based airlines)? No of course it hasnt.
#14
Original Member
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Location: Portland OR Double Emerald (QF and AA), DL PM/MM, Starwood Plat
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Originally Posted by justageek
Perhaps that's a better question than the one I originally asked. Maybe 8/10 won't mark the end of LHR as a transfer point, but it may have enough of an effect "on the margin" that oneWorld will need to diversify.
BA has deliberately adopted a "route through LHR" strategy for the past decade, tearing down any non-LHR long-haul service. They could have a dozen routes out of MAN for example -- the traffic is there -- but only have MAN-JFK and route everything else via LHR. The new T5 at LHR was part of this strategy. Maybe BA will fail as an airline due to LHR troubles, but if it happens it was at the hand of BA management rather than bad luck.
#15
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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OW collapsing I think not. These flights took off from LHR but were all American bound and were all American airlines so it would seem to me that they were targeting America not LHR. People didnt stop using LHR after Lockerbie why will they now?
btw what happened on the 8th of October
btw what happened on the 8th of October