Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Global Airline Alliances > oneworld
Reload this Page >

Does 8/10 mark the end of oneWorld?

Does 8/10 mark the end of oneWorld?

Old Aug 11, 2006, 7:49 pm
  #16  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: SYD
Programs: DJ, QF, SPG, Hilton
Posts: 2,984
Originally Posted by Japhydog
US air travel would not have survived in anything like its current form without massive amounts of cash from the government plus government takeover of underfunded pensions and government protection through bankruptcy laws. Furthermore, I don't see how barely making any money is "better than before."

So maybe the logic isn't so much of an overreaction.
How do you know the same won't happen again? Also, you'd think that airlines pay more attention to their financial planning to minimise their impact against terrorism?
Leumas is offline  
Old Aug 12, 2006, 7:30 am
  #17  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 11,242
Originally Posted by Leumas
How do you know the same won't happen again? Also, you'd think that airlines pay more attention to their financial planning to minimise their impact against terrorism?
I don't know that the same won't happen again. Nor do I know that it will. The point is that it appears as though in your earlier post you were faulting the OP for fantastical thinking, and I was responding that I don't think it's all that fantastical. Do I think it's likely? No.

As to your question re financial planning: I think it's pretty much impossible to plan both for exremely high loads (what's happening this summer in the US) while simultaneously preparing for a collapse in ridership.
Japhydog is offline  
Old Aug 12, 2006, 8:17 am
  #18  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,630
Another reason why the loss of SWISS to *A was a big loss to OW. Perhaps AA will move some LHR flights to other European cities to bypass the LHR zoo.
headinclouds is offline  
Old Aug 12, 2006, 9:16 am
  #19  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,927
Originally Posted by headinclouds
Another reason why the loss of SWISS to *A was a big loss to OW. Perhaps AA will move some LHR flights to other European cities to bypass the LHR zoo.
The problem is that lot of the traffic to LHR is connections to AA partners. So it's got to be cities where that works.

For those who don't mind backtracking (if final destination is western Europe), BUD after MA joiins would be one.

MAD might be another, tho if the AA masses complain as much about IB as FTers do that might be tough.

AY might be a fine airline (at least I don't see people on FT complaining about them left and right), but HEL is way over there (wonderful for Russia, but what else, especially after MA joins?).

One thing that could work is if AA could set up an EQM agreement with SN (sort of the way it has with AS). Most AA fliers in the US don't care that much that AS is not officially in OW, because they get the same EQM earning ability (and even exit row seat selection if booked as an AA codeshare!) just due to the way AA and AS have partnered.
sdsearch is offline  
Old Aug 12, 2006, 9:41 am
  #20  
Original Member
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Portland OR Double Emerald (QF and AA), DL PM/MM, Starwood Plat
Posts: 19,589
Originally Posted by headinclouds
Another reason why the loss of SWISS to *A was a big loss to OW. Perhaps AA will move some LHR flights to other European cities to bypass the LHR zoo.
LX was blackballed by BA (after BA got what it wanted out of LX assets -- those LHR slots) precisely because it was a viable alternative hub to LHR. BA will fight tooth and nail against any other Oneworld hub in Europe becoming viable for longhaul traffic. BUD is the best chance (due to lots of British investment there, including purchase of the airport) and the small size of BUD ensures it will be capped at about 10% of LHR's longhaul even if it becomes phenomenally successful.

Rather ironically the most likely short-term beneficiary of the LHR chaos (if it indeed continues for a month) is DUB and EI. A bit of fryingpan to fire (DUB is a chronically chaotic and frustrating airport).
number_6 is offline  
Old Aug 12, 2006, 11:40 am
  #21  
Moderator, OneWorld
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: SEA
Programs: RAA RIP; AA ExEXP
Posts: 11,773
IMO all the more reason for looking hard at SN.
Gardyloo is offline  
Old Aug 13, 2006, 2:08 am
  #22  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold(OWE), QF LTG, MR Plat, IHG Spire, Hertz PC
Posts: 8,156
Originally Posted by number_6
LX was blackballed by BA (after BA got what it wanted out of LX assets -- those LHR slots) precisely because it was a viable alternative hub to LHR.
Actually BA did not get the slots - LX sold them to QF for their 4 x daily flights to Australia (2 x SYD, 2 x MEL). I believe transaction was the greatest amount of money handed over for slots thus far.

Yes, LX was screwed by having to use them as a guarantee, yet they did manage to extract a pretty penny for them.
Traveloguy is offline  
Old Aug 13, 2006, 4:10 am
  #23  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Madrid, Spain & Santiago, Chile
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 3,181
A little OT but I just don't know where to post this information:

Current hand luggage restrictions from Spain:

Flights to/via UK: same as ex-UK restrictions.
Flights to/via US/SJU: same as ex-US restrictions.
All other flights: no new restrictions.

Also note BRU has imposed new restrictions, almost as strict as ex-UK.
Viajero is offline  
Old Aug 13, 2006, 11:52 am
  #24  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,927
Originally Posted by Viajero
A little OT but I just don't know where to post this information:

Current hand luggage restrictions from Spain:

Flights to/via UK: same as ex-UK restrictions.
Flights to/via US/SJU: same as ex-US restrictions.
All other flights: no new restrictions.

Also note BRU has imposed new restrictions, almost as strict as ex-UK.
Given that Spain is IB's home base, and IB is part of OneWorld, I'm not sure how OT it is. Those trying to figure out how to do OW fares and not hating IB quite AS much as the current LHR mess might find it very relevant to the use of miles!

Having said all that: How far ahead must OW fares be purchased? This situation is changing SO fast, I'm not sure how useful it will be for much past same-week sorts of routing decisions.
sdsearch is offline  
Old Aug 13, 2006, 12:05 pm
  #25  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Madrid, Spain & Santiago, Chile
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 3,181
Originally Posted by sdsearch
...Having said all that: How far ahead must OW fares be purchased?...
It varies:

Code:
  2N RESERVATIONS/TICKETING     
  3N -----------------------    
  4N .                          
  5N . 1. RESERVATIONS AND TICKETING FOR THE FIRST      
  6N .    INTERNATIONAL FLIGHT AND ALL PRECEDING FLIGHTS 
  7N .    ARE REQUIRED AS OUTLINED IN THE CHARTS BELOW. 
  8N . 2. ALL OTHER SEGMENTS MAY BE OPEN.               
  9N ORIGIN IN AREA 1           
 10N .                          
 11N X INDICATES NUMBER OF DAYS                         
 12N .                          
 13N ------------------------------------------------------                     
 14N I FARE BASIS  I RESERVATIONS   I TICKET MUST BE      I                     
 15N I             I ARE MADE X     I ISSUED:             I                     
 16N I             I DAYS PRIOR TO  I                     I    
 17N I             I DEPARTURE OF   I                     I                    
 18N I             I FIRST FLIGHT   I                     I                     
 19N ------------------------------------------------------                     
 20N I AONE        I 7 DAYS         I 7 DAYS PRIOR TO     I                     
 21N I             I                I DEPARTURE           I                     
 22N ------------------------------------------------------                     
 23N I DONE        I 7 DAYS         I 7 DAYS PRIOR TO     I                     
 24N I             I                I DEPARTURE           I                     
 25N ------------------------------------------------------                     
 26N I L-ONE       I 22 OR MORE     I 21 DAYS PRIOR TO    I                     
 27N I             I DAYS           I DEPARTURE           I                     
 28N ------------------------------------------------------                     
 29N I -           I 21 TO 8 DAYS   I 7 DAYS PRIOR TO     I                     
 30N I             I                I DEPARTURE           I                     
 31N ------------------------------------------------------                     
 32N ORIGIN IN AREA 2/3         
 33N .                          
 34N X INDICATES NUMBER OF DAYS                         
 35N .           
 36N ------------------------------------------------------                    
 37N I FARE BASIS  I RESERVATIONS   I TICKET MUST BE      I                     
 38N I             I ARE MADE X     I ISSUED :            I                     
 39N I             I DAYS PRIOR TO  I                     I                     
 40N I             I DEPARTURE OF   I                     I                     
 41N I             I FIRST FLIGHT   I                     I                     
 42N ------------------------------------------------------                     
 43N I AONE        I ANYTIME        I 1 HOUR PRIOR TO     I                     
 44N I             I                I DEPARTURE           I                     
 45N ------------------------------------------------------                     
 46N I DONE        I ANYTIME        I 1 HOUR PRIOR TO     I                     
 47N I             I                I DEPARTURE           I                     
 48N ------------------------------------------------------                     
 49N I L-ONE       I 22 OR MORE     I 21 DAYS PRIOR TO    I                     
 50N I             I DAYS           I DEPARTURE           I                     
 51N ------------------------------------------------------                     
 52N I -           I 21 TO 8 DAYS   I 7 DAYS PRIOR TO     I                     
 53N I             I                I DEPARTURE           I                     
 54N ------------------------------------------------------      
 55N I -           I 7 DAYS OR LESS I PRIOR TO DEPARTURE  I                    
 56N ------------------------------------------------------
Viajero is offline  
Old Aug 13, 2006, 1:32 pm
  #26  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Little dot in Asia
Programs: AA-EP, TK-*G, HL-DM, HY-GLO, MR-LTP
Posts: 25,924
Who else is left in Europe that has a viable F/J service and has a comprehensive enough network to rival that of BA that is acceptable to OW standards that isn't part of the STAR alliance yet?
Guy Betsy is offline  
Old Aug 14, 2006, 7:46 am
  #27  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by number_6
The new terminal at MAD is part of this and is likely to attract more OW flights into MAD over the next few years
This is already happening.

Quote from thread
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=589326

How else might one get from Boston to Rome, ...mid November ... without using JFK or a UK airport ?
ORD-MAD-FCO was the obvious response, not only because of OW partner but also lower airport fees and IB fares, and much better airport facilities than LHR and FRA.


Maybe BA will fail as an airline due to LHR troubles, but if it happens it was at the hand of BA management rather than bad luck.

It have been demostrated in Madrid and London that terrorist incidents only have a short effect , recovering to normality in a short period of time.

Madrid city since the march 2004 bombing is registering a booming in tourism with more than 20% increases .

Spain is registering around 6% increases every year since 2004. Now 2nd tourist destination worldwide after France.


The case of LHR perhaps would be different because the new measures will only add to a previous delicate situation , with no more capacity and horrendous transfers and baggage handling at LHR , so perhaps it will suffer more because of this added effect .

Who haven't lose baggage transiting in LHR ?

Lots of people avoided LHR before this last security scare . To the moment is only that , an scare.
randomize is offline  
Old Aug 14, 2006, 9:02 am
  #28  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,927
Originally Posted by randomize
The case of LHR perhaps would be different because the new measures will only add to a previous delicate situation , with no more capacity and horrendous transfers and baggage handling at LHR , so perhaps it will suffer more because of this added effect .

Who haven't lose baggage transiting in LHR ?
Exactly. In my case, on the very first trip through there (and in that case, I wasn't even changing airlines, it was all BA).

Since then, I've only booked LHR when I knew I could carry on everything (at least as far as LHR; a gate check on the final leg is a lot less likely to be lost).

The ban on liquids I could work around. For one thing, liquids are light so they're relatively cheap to send ahead (if you're concerned you may not be able to buy there).

But this morning the "relaxed" security procedure at UK airports involves only ONE carryon on rather small size (about 6.2" tall max). I can't fit both my laptop and my SLR into such a bag, and no way am I going to choose to go through an airport that makes me check one or the other, especially when that airport is so known for losing checked bags.
sdsearch is offline  
Old Aug 16, 2006, 10:31 am
  #29  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: AA PLT; UA Gold
Posts: 5,378
I withdraw my original question/premise.

According to this article
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/16/wo...d-airport.html

the various EU nations are going to formulate unified transportation "security" rules. As a result, it will be just as annoying to transit through LHR as anywhere else.

Looks like we're quickly running out of continents...
justageek is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.