FYI recent experiences booking an ex-CPT DONE5
Sep 12, 2015, 3:13 pm
#76
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Yes I know that
My itinerary (both the original and the new one I want) satisfy 3.2.2
BA (or at least the last supervisor I spoke to) is saying that because the text I highlighted does not explicitly say the word 'Europe' then flights to/from the Europe Zone of the continent are not allowed
I'm saying the rule is only discussing the restrictions on the to/from Africa flights and do not restrict the intra-continent flights (the continent of Europe/Middle East that is)
By comparison, 3.2.3 DOES restrict the intra-continent flights - but my itinerary does not fall under that rule
My itinerary (both the original and the new one I want) satisfy 3.2.2
BA (or at least the last supervisor I spoke to) is saying that because the text I highlighted does not explicitly say the word 'Europe' then flights to/from the Europe Zone of the continent are not allowed
I'm saying the rule is only discussing the restrictions on the to/from Africa flights and do not restrict the intra-continent flights (the continent of Europe/Middle East that is)
By comparison, 3.2.3 DOES restrict the intra-continent flights - but my itinerary does not fall under that rule
Originally Posted by current xONEx rules from oneworld.com
For travel originating in Africa:
One of the following backtracks is permitted
3.2.1
Africa-Europe-RTW-Europe-Africa
One of the visits to Europe must be a
transfer without stopover between Africa
and the previous/next continent.
Travel may not include Mauritius/South Africa
3.2.2
Africa-Middle East-RTW-Middle East-Africa
One of the visits to Middle East must be a
transfer without stopover between Africa
and the previous/next continent.
3.2.3
Africa-Europe-RTW-Middle East-Africa
or
Africa-Middle East-RTW-Europe-Africa
Travel may not include any flown or surface sector
Between Europe and Middle East
One of the following backtracks is permitted
3.2.1
Africa-Europe-RTW-Europe-Africa
One of the visits to Europe must be a
transfer without stopover between Africa
and the previous/next continent.
Travel may not include Mauritius/South Africa
3.2.2
Africa-Middle East-RTW-Middle East-Africa
One of the visits to Middle East must be a
transfer without stopover between Africa
and the previous/next continent.
3.2.3
Africa-Europe-RTW-Middle East-Africa
or
Africa-Middle East-RTW-Europe-Africa
Travel may not include any flown or surface sector
Between Europe and Middle East
Sep 12, 2015, 4:05 pm
#77
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
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CPT-JNB-xDOH-EZE....
And therefore I am allowed stopovers on my return to Europe/Middle East:
Originally: ...BKK-AMM-TUN-DOH-CMN-DOH-NBO
Now I want ...BKK-xDOH-CMN-xDOH-OSL-xDOH-NBO
So, originally I had stopovers in both zones - AMM and DOH in the Middle East Zone and TUN and CMN in the Europe Zone
Now, I want stopovers in just the Europe Zone - CMN and OSL, and just transits in the Middle East Zone at DOH
Sep 12, 2015, 4:52 pm
#78
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Perhaps BA are confused by the 4 intra-continental sectors involving Middle East, given there is a UK specific rule that only permits 2 sectors between Middle East and UK?
Sep 12, 2015, 8:32 pm
#79
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Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
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Posts: 3,467
No the crux of the issue appears to be what I said in post #75:
And the text I highlighted is:
BA (or at least the last supervisor I spoke to) is saying that because the text I highlighted does not explicitly say the word 'Europe' then flights to/from the Europe Zone of the continent are not allowed
3.2.2 AFRICA-MIDDLE EAST-RTW-MIDDLE EAST-AFRICA ONE OF THE VISITS TO MIDDLE EAST MUST BE A TRANSFER WITHOUT STOPOVER BETWEEN AFRICA AND THE PREVIOUS OR NEXT CONTINENT.
Sep 12, 2015, 10:23 pm
#81
Join Date: Aug 2004
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No the crux of the issue appears to be what I said in post #75:
And the text I highlighted is:
BA (or at least the last supervisor I spoke to) is saying that because the text I highlighted does not explicitly say the word 'Europe' then flights to/from the Europe Zone of the continent are not allowed
3.2.2 AFRICA-MIDDLE EAST-RTW-MIDDLE EAST-AFRICA ONE OF THE VISITS TO MIDDLE EAST MUST BE A TRANSFER WITHOUT STOPOVER BETWEEN AFRICA AND THE PREVIOUS OR NEXT CONTINENT.
Sep 13, 2015, 12:51 am
#82
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
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Posts: 3,467
In brief
- the on-line tool allows intra-continental flights (that's how I booked it)
- but both AA and now BA ticketing people disallow these intra-continent flights
Sep 13, 2015, 1:00 am
#83
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
Programs: QFF NB, AA GLD
Posts: 3,467
)What I have been saying is that the wording is solely about the entry and exit to/from Africa and not about restricting the intra-continental flights
Otherwise you have the absurd situation (IMHO) where
3.2.1 allows only Europe Zone
3.2.2 allows only Middle East Zone, while
3.2.3 allows both
And in all three cases you are of course being charged the cost of having Europe/Middle East continent in the intinerary
Sep 13, 2015, 1:07 am
#84
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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The line I would take is ...
If it was intended to exclude Europe-Middle East sectors then it should have explicitly said so (per #3). Except where explicitly stated the rule is about entering the same continent twice, not about restrictions for travel within a continent (and Middle East/North Africa/Europe is all one continent for xONEx).
If it was intended to exclude Europe-Middle East sectors then it should have explicitly said so (per #3). Except where explicitly stated the rule is about entering the same continent twice, not about restrictions for travel within a continent (and Middle East/North Africa/Europe is all one continent for xONEx).
Sep 13, 2015, 1:17 am
#85
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
Programs: QFF NB, AA GLD
Posts: 3,467
The line I would take is ...
If it was intended to exclude Europe-Middle East sectors then it should have explicitly said so (per #3). Except where explicitly stated the rule is about entering the same continent twice, not about restrictions for travel within a continent (and Middle East/North Africa/Europe is all one continent for xONEx).
If it was intended to exclude Europe-Middle East sectors then it should have explicitly said so (per #3). Except where explicitly stated the rule is about entering the same continent twice, not about restrictions for travel within a continent (and Middle East/North Africa/Europe is all one continent for xONEx).
And I will use that in my next telephone conversation (probably on Monday if we can do it before I disappear into Burma/Myanmar for a month, where I expect communication to be significantly more difficult)
Do you want me to attribute the wording to you?
Sep 13, 2015, 11:01 am
#86
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Also, if you're going to be in Bangkok on the way in or out, don't forget to check the Bangkok meetup thread!!
Sep 15, 2015, 10:24 pm
#89
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Posts: 3,467
The online booking tool has been changed to now match the interpretation of BA (see post #75) and AA (see post #1)
In preparation for my next telephone conversation with BA, I thought I’d use the tool to setup a new itinerary to match the one I now want. Then I could say “Look the tool allows it as a new itinerary, so why won’t you allow me to change my itinerary to be the same?”, which in brief is:
CPT-JNB-xDOH-EZE…BKK-xDOH-CMN-xDOH-OSL-xDOH-NBO
(I have already flown as far as BKK)
Yesterday I setup and saved the itinerary, but it wouldn’t price up, instead showing some gobbledegook error number.(I have already flown as far as BKK)
But today the tool flags it as an invalid itinerary stating
Your itinerary cannot include any flown or surface sector between Europe and Middle East. Choose another route and update your itinerary.
One hope I have is that the particular rule will be changed to (more accurately) reflect the interpretation put on it. Because then I can say “Ah, but I bought the ticket under the fare rules in place back in January”. As of today, the wording in the rule sheet, on oneworld.com, hasn’t changed. Neither has the wording in the GDS that ExpertFlyer accesses.
:worried:
Sep 16, 2015, 6:04 am
#90
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
The online booking tool has been changed to now match the interpretation of BA (see post #75) and AA (see post #1)
In preparation for my next telephone conversation with BA, I thought I’d use the tool to setup a new itinerary to match the one I now want. Then I could say “Look the tool allows it as a new itinerary, so why won’t you allow me to change my itinerary to be the same?”, which in brief is:
CPT-JNB-xDOH-EZE…BKK-xDOH-CMN-xDOH-OSL-xDOH-NBO
(I have already flown as far as BKK)
Yesterday I setup and saved the itinerary, but it wouldn’t price up, instead showing some gobbledegook error number.(I have already flown as far as BKK)
But today the tool flags it as an invalid itinerary stating
So I’m now wondering what will happen to my requested change – my expectation is that it will be disallowed, but will they now turn around and say that my original itinerary was invalid and must be changed. (it was …BKK-AMM-TUN-DOH-CMN-DOH-NBO)
One hope I have is that the particular rule will be changed to (more accurately) reflect the interpretation put on it. Because then I can say “Ah, but I bought the ticket under the fare rules in place back in January”. As of today, the wording in the rule sheet, on oneworld.com, hasn’t changed. Neither has the wording in the GDS that ExpertFlyer accesses.
:worried: