Deciding on a Oneworld Frequent Flyer Program? Help is here.
Oct 13, 2023 | 8:55 am
#1756
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 123
Actually I just noticed that I made a calculation error. I had the elite bonus multiplier on the base + cabin bonus, which is incorrect. The elite bonus is only on the base miles. I just fixed it and you'd only end up at 110k-112k LPs now, needing to find about 13k-15k another way (Other flights, AA credit card spend, AA Hotels (I'm assuming it's still out there, I found one after the change this year where you could still get about 16k LPs for $500 and not need to ever visit the hotel).
Reversing the itinerary does work, but it would then ticket through JL (assuming it even works in the OW tool, I haven't tested that). So I changed it slightly to cause it to get ticketed by CX, but you'd lose MIA. Just be sure you're timing your start and end within AA's Elite qualification year (March 1st to Feb 28th). BA is different and your qualification year is based on the month you earn your first Tier Points (which I'm assuming you already have done in the past so it's probably already set, you can see in your account, mine is May).
HND HKG CX
HKG SIN CX
SIN HKG CX
HKG DOH QR
DOH HEL QR
HEL LHR AY
LHR BCN BA
BCN DOH QR
DOH LAX QR
LAX JFK AA
JFK GIG AA
GIG EZE BA
EZE JFK AA
JFK SYD QF
SYD MEL QF
MEL NRT QF
One caveat in this, you'd hit Gold during that DOH-LAX flight, and I don't know how AA handles that 40% bonus. If it only counts from the next flight then you're at 110k LPs + the 2x BA flights mystery amount. But if AA pro-rates it exactly from 40k LPs then you'd have about 4,400 more LPs than I've accounted for, which might also kick Platinum in sooner than I've calculated so maybe a couple thousand more LPs than I've accounted for.
The biggest difference (high fees aside) between AA miles and Avios is that AA is zone based for redemption and Avios is distance based. Very short flights in business class are a good deal with Avios, but their long haul redemptions are atrocious these days. AA has some really attractive long haul rates, but some of the short haul wouldn't make sense in comparison. It's useful to have both on hand. I have AA as my primary but I always keep some Avios active for specific shorter redemptions. AA also weirdly doesn't have all OW inventory for redemption. I haven't found very many examples of this but there are a small handful that I've noticed on JL and CX where BA would have availability on those routes, I think they fixed one of them after I lodged a complaint to AAdvantage CS but it took a while and I couldn't use it when I needed it.
For you, domestic, if you go with AA once you get to PPro you'd have some chance at upgrades but I wouldn't expect many, you'd also get free Main Cabin Extra selection at booking and 3x free checked bags on AA metal, but only would have lounge access on long haul international. (they were allowing Admirals Club on Caribbean and Central America as well for a while but not sure if that's still in place). If you go with BA you won't get the upgrades or MCE seating, but you'd always have lounge access regardless of itinerary. Your baggage would also go by the OneWorld Emerald policy which is +1 on top of whatever the ticket allows (which is usually zero on domestic economy).
It sounds like you don't do a ton of domestic flying as it is, so I think the big decision comes down to how you will use your miles. In the end, after achieving PPro once, it's easier to maintain. I think you'd likely earn a lot more miles with AA but depends on which airlines you fly on going forward. AA's tier bonus applies to all OW flights. BA's tier bonus for Gold only applies fully for BA, IB, AA, JL and partially for AY (maybe more, I just didn't find them), though I suspect those will be changing for at least BA and IB soon and will just be a higher multiplier on the revenue, just like AA for it's own flights in AAdvantage.
Reversing the itinerary does work, but it would then ticket through JL (assuming it even works in the OW tool, I haven't tested that). So I changed it slightly to cause it to get ticketed by CX, but you'd lose MIA. Just be sure you're timing your start and end within AA's Elite qualification year (March 1st to Feb 28th). BA is different and your qualification year is based on the month you earn your first Tier Points (which I'm assuming you already have done in the past so it's probably already set, you can see in your account, mine is May).
HND HKG CX
HKG SIN CX
SIN HKG CX
HKG DOH QR
DOH HEL QR
HEL LHR AY
LHR BCN BA
BCN DOH QR
DOH LAX QR
LAX JFK AA
JFK GIG AA
GIG EZE BA
EZE JFK AA
JFK SYD QF
SYD MEL QF
MEL NRT QF
One caveat in this, you'd hit Gold during that DOH-LAX flight, and I don't know how AA handles that 40% bonus. If it only counts from the next flight then you're at 110k LPs + the 2x BA flights mystery amount. But if AA pro-rates it exactly from 40k LPs then you'd have about 4,400 more LPs than I've accounted for, which might also kick Platinum in sooner than I've calculated so maybe a couple thousand more LPs than I've accounted for.
The biggest difference (high fees aside) between AA miles and Avios is that AA is zone based for redemption and Avios is distance based. Very short flights in business class are a good deal with Avios, but their long haul redemptions are atrocious these days. AA has some really attractive long haul rates, but some of the short haul wouldn't make sense in comparison. It's useful to have both on hand. I have AA as my primary but I always keep some Avios active for specific shorter redemptions. AA also weirdly doesn't have all OW inventory for redemption. I haven't found very many examples of this but there are a small handful that I've noticed on JL and CX where BA would have availability on those routes, I think they fixed one of them after I lodged a complaint to AAdvantage CS but it took a while and I couldn't use it when I needed it.
For you, domestic, if you go with AA once you get to PPro you'd have some chance at upgrades but I wouldn't expect many, you'd also get free Main Cabin Extra selection at booking and 3x free checked bags on AA metal, but only would have lounge access on long haul international. (they were allowing Admirals Club on Caribbean and Central America as well for a while but not sure if that's still in place). If you go with BA you won't get the upgrades or MCE seating, but you'd always have lounge access regardless of itinerary. Your baggage would also go by the OneWorld Emerald policy which is +1 on top of whatever the ticket allows (which is usually zero on domestic economy).
It sounds like you don't do a ton of domestic flying as it is, so I think the big decision comes down to how you will use your miles. In the end, after achieving PPro once, it's easier to maintain. I think you'd likely earn a lot more miles with AA but depends on which airlines you fly on going forward. AA's tier bonus applies to all OW flights. BA's tier bonus for Gold only applies fully for BA, IB, AA, JL and partially for AY (maybe more, I just didn't find them), though I suspect those will be changing for at least BA and IB soon and will just be a higher multiplier on the revenue, just like AA for it's own flights in AAdvantage.
Having one checked bad allowance is more than i will ever use on domestic fligths.
I like AA giving tier bonus for all OW partners and long haul redemption would be better.
I am surprised BA does not give tier bonus on QR flights, they have the same Avios currency. As for their FFP, get BA Gold will provide lounge domestic access. I think a OWE has Flagship lounge access as well. If my base was DFW or LAX i would definitely go for BA as those Flagship lounges are on the better side. Although at LAX there are also the QF lounges which are not too shabby.
But all things considered, I am going to go with AA.
What i am trying to understand is why ticket this itinerary with JL or QF and why not AA ?
Oct 13, 2023 | 11:23 am
#1757
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Not here; there!
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold
Posts: 34,985
Having one checked bad allowance is more than i will ever use on domestic fligths.
I like AA giving tier bonus for all OW partners and long haul redemption would be better.
I am surprised BA does not give tier bonus on QR flights, they have the same Avios currency. As for their FFP, get BA Gold will provide lounge domestic access. I think a OWE has Flagship lounge access as well. If my base was DFW or LAX i would definitely go for BA as those Flagship lounges are on the better side. Although at LAX there are also the QF lounges which are not too shabby.
But all things considered, I am going to go with AA.
I like AA giving tier bonus for all OW partners and long haul redemption would be better.
I am surprised BA does not give tier bonus on QR flights, they have the same Avios currency. As for their FFP, get BA Gold will provide lounge domestic access. I think a OWE has Flagship lounge access as well. If my base was DFW or LAX i would definitely go for BA as those Flagship lounges are on the better side. Although at LAX there are also the QF lounges which are not too shabby.
But all things considered, I am going to go with AA.
Although there are no Priority Pass lounges at DEN, there are two participating Priority Pass restaurants there. The US Bank Altitude Reserve card -- which can have a net annual fee of zero or less (after its annual $325 travel/dining credit, and generous retention bonuses) -- offers eight annual visits to PP restaurants or lounges; the more expensive Chase Sapphire Reserve offers unlimited visits to PP lounges and restaurants.
If most of your purely domestic travel from DEN would require a connection (on AA or AS), redeeming AAdvantage miles rather than Avios for such trips will always be cheaper (when Avios redemptions are available), since BA charges for each flight flown.
Oct 13, 2023 | 12:34 pm
#1758
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Not here; there!
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold
Posts: 34,985
memanny, one very important caveat: You have not indicated the starting and ending dates of your RTW trip, but each FFP has its own qualification time period for earning elite status. AA's runs from March 1 through February 28/29. If you want to maximize your Loyalty Points earnings to achieve status in AAdvantage, you would want all of your flights (and other LP-earning events, like major credit-card spend) to take place in a single qualification period.
Oct 14, 2023 | 1:38 am
#1759
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NRT / HND
Programs: AA EXP, A3 Gold, Former UA 1K
Posts: 6,365
Having one checked bad allowance is more than i will ever use on domestic fligths.
I like AA giving tier bonus for all OW partners and long haul redemption would be better.
I am surprised BA does not give tier bonus on QR flights, they have the same Avios currency. As for their FFP, get BA Gold will provide lounge domestic access. I think a OWE has Flagship lounge access as well. If my base was DFW or LAX i would definitely go for BA as those Flagship lounges are on the better side. Although at LAX there are also the QF lounges which are not too shabby.
But all things considered, I am going to go with AA.
What i am trying to understand is why ticket this itinerary with JL or QF and why not AA ?
I like AA giving tier bonus for all OW partners and long haul redemption would be better.
I am surprised BA does not give tier bonus on QR flights, they have the same Avios currency. As for their FFP, get BA Gold will provide lounge domestic access. I think a OWE has Flagship lounge access as well. If my base was DFW or LAX i would definitely go for BA as those Flagship lounges are on the better side. Although at LAX there are also the QF lounges which are not too shabby.
But all things considered, I am going to go with AA.
What i am trying to understand is why ticket this itinerary with JL or QF and why not AA ?
You're making a solid choice going with AA since it sounds like redemption and Emerald status are your key perks you're after.
The reason to avoid AA for ticketing, if you ticket with AA there's a much higher chance your AA segments would end up crediting as revenue instead of distance. There's a thread in the AA forum about it and there's no rhyme or reason, sometimes they go one way, sometimes they go the other. I've been in contact with AAdvantage customer service several times and they absolutely refused to answer the question on when or why each happens. If your many AA segments credit as revenue, that wrecks your whole plan and you'll end up between 95k-100k LPs. I've yet to see people report QF and CX issued DONEx having AA segments credit as revenue and no one that I've seen on FlyerTalk tickets with JL because they have a ticketing and change fee. I'm sure in Japanese language forums you'd find people with experience on JL issued tickets but they also probably credit to JL Milage Bank.
I've been through a lot of torture on my QF ticket trying to get changes done, their call centers are nearly 100% incompetent. But finally figured out to use the Twitter team instead and though it can take a few days, they do have the right connections and get things done. Now I'm getting ready to start a CX issued ticket, from what I hear from others they aren't bad to deal with, though it does seem their call center can be hit or miss. Their Whatsapp team is good, I've used them already.
It's actually the one huge disadvantage of having your status in AAdvantage is not being able to use the AA RTW desk unless you're willing to risk taking the huge milage hit on your AA coded flights.
Oct 14, 2023 | 7:18 am
#1760
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: HK
Programs: Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 6
The long-distance segments do not have to be on BA. But you must have a total of four segments (of any length) that are BA-marketed or BA-operated, or IB-marketed and IB-operated. It is possible that you might have a segment marketed by BA, but operated by another carrier, say AA or QR.
In addition to the four "eligible" segments, you must amass a total of 1,500 BAEC Tier Points to attain BAEC Gold .You can click on the BA "Flight Calculator" at this site to determine how many Avios and Tier Points each segment would earn:
But as previously noted, any Business Class segment of more than 2,000 miles flown on any oneworld carrier will earn at least 140 Tier Points if you credit the flight to BAEC.
In addition to the four "eligible" segments, you must amass a total of 1,500 BAEC Tier Points to attain BAEC Gold .You can click on the BA "Flight Calculator" at this site to determine how many Avios and Tier Points each segment would earn:
But as previously noted, any Business Class segment of more than 2,000 miles flown on any oneworld carrier will earn at least 140 Tier Points if you credit the flight to BAEC.
Oct 14, 2023 | 2:05 pm
#1761
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Not here; there!
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold
Posts: 34,985
Oct 14, 2023 | 2:09 pm
#1762
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: HK
Programs: Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 6
I can see SIN to SYD only.
It's hard to get 4 BA flights in Asia
Should I change my plan to the QATAR program?
Which one is better for a HK-based flyer?
CX or QR?
I am chasing for Emerald.
Thanks!
It's kinda sad as BA has the easiest and most achievable lifetime status that I want
It's hard to get 4 BA flights in Asia
Should I change my plan to the QATAR program?
Which one is better for a HK-based flyer?
CX or QR?
I am chasing for Emerald.
Thanks!
It's kinda sad as BA has the easiest and most achievable lifetime status that I want
Oct 14, 2023 | 2:17 pm
#1763
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Not here; there!
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold
Posts: 34,985
I can see SIN to SYD only.
It's hard to get 4 BA flights in Asia
Should I change my plan to the QATAR program?
Which one is better for a HK-based flyer?
CX or QR?
I am chasing for Emerald.
Thanks!
It's kinda sad as BA has the easiest and most achievable lifetime status that I want
It's hard to get 4 BA flights in Asia
Should I change my plan to the QATAR program?
Which one is better for a HK-based flyer?
CX or QR?
I am chasing for Emerald.
Thanks!
It's kinda sad as BA has the easiest and most achievable lifetime status that I want
Depending on your flying patterns, you might look into crediting to Iberia Plus, which allows you to earn status without ever setting foot on an Iberia flight:
https://insideflyer.co.uk/2019/03/qa...f-iberia-plus/
("WHY QATAR AIRWAYS BUSINESS CLASS REGULARS MIGHT BE BETTER OFF WITH IBERIA PLUS")
Oct 14, 2023 | 6:14 pm
#1764
Original Poster
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: MEL CHC
Posts: 22,910
BA flies SIN-SYD on their own metal. I don't know whether they codeshare on the QF flights also.
Depending on your flying patterns, you might look into crediting to Iberia Plus, which allows you to earn status without ever setting foot on an Iberia flight:
https://insideflyer.co.uk/2019/03/qa...f-iberia-plus/
("WHY QATAR AIRWAYS BUSINESS CLASS REGULARS MIGHT BE BETTER OFF WITH IBERIA PLUS")
Depending on your flying patterns, you might look into crediting to Iberia Plus, which allows you to earn status without ever setting foot on an Iberia flight:
https://insideflyer.co.uk/2019/03/qa...f-iberia-plus/
("WHY QATAR AIRWAYS BUSINESS CLASS REGULARS MIGHT BE BETTER OFF WITH IBERIA PLUS")
Generally need to be a tag on to a BA operated flight. Being able to purchase a standalone code share flight is less common and subject to govt agreements (5th freedom etc)
https://www.auckland-airport.net/akl...ritish-airways
Oct 15, 2023 | 5:41 am
#1765
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NRT / HND
Programs: AA EXP, A3 Gold, Former UA 1K
Posts: 6,365
QR has the same 4 segment requirement for status. Are you flying QR on at least 2 connecting flights per year?
Oct 15, 2023 | 12:21 pm
#1766
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 123
Another question that props to mind is with BA, IB, QR and in near future AY all dealing with Avios, is there an arbitrage opportunity. As in would it better to accumulate miles in one program and spend it in another.
I am finding out i do not know much about IB, AY and QR FFP's.
I am finding out i do not know much about IB, AY and QR FFP's.
Oct 15, 2023 | 12:28 pm
#1767
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Not here; there!
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold
Posts: 34,985
Another question that props to mind is with BA, IB, QR and in near future AY all dealing with Avios, is there an arbitrage opportunity. As in would it better to accumulate miles in one program and spend it in another.
I am finding out i do not know much about IB, AY and QR FFP's.
I am finding out i do not know much about IB, AY and QR FFP's.
Each program has its own rules and fees. For example, a BA redemption on an AA domestic flight can be cancelled -- and your Avios refunded -- merely by forfeiting the $5.60 September 11 Security Fee paid when the award was booked; by contrast IB redemptions on AA are non-changeable/non-refundable.
Oct 15, 2023 | 12:48 pm
#1768
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: HK
Programs: Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 6
Oct 15, 2023 | 5:49 pm
#1769
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Not here; there!
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold
Posts: 34,985
Oct 16, 2023 | 9:52 pm
#1770
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NRT / HND
Programs: AA EXP, A3 Gold, Former UA 1K
Posts: 6,365
For QR I was just looking at the site again, they count QR marketed flights as well, so that could well be on other OW airlines. I don't know if they count non-alliance partners like WB and PG if it's QR marketed but I suppose if those earn Q Points then it should still count. They don't actually have a hard rule of 4 / 8 segments in 12 or 24 months, interestingly it also allows 20% of Q Points earned to be on QR flights, though it's possible, I don't think most people would be earning 120 Q Points for Platinum (20% of 600) with less than 4 QR segments, though LAX-SYD via DOH certainly would do it, that'd be 176 Q Points on a D fare.
Another question that props to mind is with BA, IB, QR and in near future AY all dealing with Avios, is there an arbitrage opportunity. As in would it better to accumulate miles in one program and spend it in another.
I am finding out i do not know much about IB, AY and QR FFP's.
I am finding out i do not know much about IB, AY and QR FFP's.
Non-OW partners though are pretty different on most of the Avios programs. BA has LA, FJ, and CZ that could be useful. IB has Vueling, Level, and Binter (as well as LA), AY has LA, HO (which is quite useful for intra-China and some Asia routes), and BRA (a Swedish regional), and QR has WB, PG, B6, ME, WY, and VA.
Last edited by dvs7310; Oct 16, 2023 at 11:03 pm