My thinking is more on DONE or AONE for avoiding Europe all together. But it is good to know about the connection in MAD as well, thank you.

I know exactly what you mean...I connect in LHR 4 times on my AONE5 this summer as I have to fly to RUH to start the trip. No stopovers...

I can't see BA or IB being very happy with a USA-JNB/CPT as that would enable xONEx without going through Europe (NAm-Africa-SEAsia/SWP)

Even less appealing to the existing members (except maybe QF and LA) would be any of EZE/SCL/GRU-JNB/CPT thus permitting a southern hemisphere DONE3.

I think we will wait awhile for either. Other speculations welcomed.

Fred

Are you serious ? I am a die-hard *A fan , but I will still be the first to admit that OW absolutely dominates South America ( even without TAM ) , between AA , IB , 4 current LAN airlines with a fifth in the works I really don't see how you can say OW is especially weak in South America ? What would it take for you to consider them strong ?

well, it took so long for you to openly admit you're a fanboy
Anyway, in the eventuality that * is able to gobble LATAM (and that is a direct will promanating from Cologne, from all places), it will cause more regulatory pains for the alliance right now (TAP has a neat lead for connections between Europe and South America and is both well feeded and aided by good ole LH), and in the future with the accession of TACA and COPA, rather than to OW.

This is already possible through AA ORD-DEL, so more shouldn't make a difference IMO.

Well that's probably going to happen anyway. AA can't sit by for much longer while DL and *A capture the entire US-Africa market. BA/IB needs to realize that the world doesn't need to transit through Europe anymore.


Well thats most likely going to happen when LAN receives their 787's. BA best get used to the changing alliance dynamics.

Not sure what you are getting at there - a USA (or for that fact North or South American) flight to Africa is not possible at the moment without connecting through Europe. Really not sure what the AA service ORD - DEL has to do with it?

I think the point was that a *ONE3 is possible without transiting Europe by doing N. America - Asia (on AA's ORD-DEL flight) - SWP - N. America.

*ONE*s including Africa but excluding Europe remain impossible due to the lack of any TATL flights to Africa on OW.

That's not true. DL, UA and SA all fly north america africa. You can also fly EK, EY and QR and connect thru mideast hubs...not to mention via CAI on MS.

I am perfectly aware of that - but we are discussing ONE WORLD, when I last looked DL, UA, SA were not members of One World!

That is not true - if you look at the One World rules, unless they have changed recently, ORD - DEL counts as 3 continents. It is not possible to go through any Southern Hemisphere continent as part of a *ONE3

AA has GOL as a Partner in Brazil, which is also Partner of DL and AirFrance KLM, anyways OW redeemptions in S. America are not good, neither easy to find.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByrdluvsAWACO

Well that's probably going to happen anyway. AA can't sit by for much longer while DL and *A capture the entire US-Africa market. BA/IB needs to realize that the world doesn't need to transit through Europe anymore.

Right, but not much BA/IB can do except compete on price/product as they can't launch US-Africa themselves, unless BA has some grandfather rights for some former colonies? I'm waiting for AA too... Hurry up AA!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByrdluvsAWACO

Well thats most likely going to happen when LAN receives their 787's. BA best get used to the changing alliance dynamics.

I'm sure they're prepared - the structure of the new IAG holding company is scalable so as to swallow further airlines, whether that's the new LATAM or EI or new MX, or Timbuktoo Airways, etc., subject to foreign ownership rules. BA/IB is not the end of it, LON/MAD centric as IAG is now - they want to add other airlines, and I'm sure Willie Walsh has an Americas carrier or two on his shortlist of candidates.. I think they're actually being part of the change in dynamics meself, willing it along - the way the IAG launch has been explained internally is that it's not "what's best for BA/LON hub?" or "what's best for IB/MAD hub" - it's "what's best for our customers?" - and if that means connecting through LON out and MAD back, that's fine. In future, that could potentially mean LON out, SAO back (i.e. NYC BA X/LON BA JNB LA X/SAO LA NYC) - and it won't bother 'BA' one bit - but IAG will be happy. (LA just used as example - they may join IAG, they may not.. I wouldn't know either until it were announced but I think they'd be a good fit).

Quote:

Originally Posted by wijibintheair

That is not true - if you look at the One World rules, unless they have changed recently, ORD - DEL counts as 3 continents. It is not possible to go through any Southern Hemisphere continent as part of a *ONE3

No, but you can still skip Europe. You'll be paying for it, but you can skip it, and do NA-Asia-NA crossing both Atlantic and Pacific and qualifying for a RTW but without touching EU. Actually, the way I read the rule on the ORD-DEL flight, I don't think it means you can't go to a S. hemisphere continent on your xONE3 - just that if you don't, you're still paying for a xONE3 as there's no such thing as a xONE2. I can get that clarified though.

The rules are here:
Nonstop transatlanticTravel on AA between DEL and ORD is permitted. For travel ex South America/South West Pacific- when this service is utilised a minimum of a 4 Continent Fare must be charged. For travel ex North America/Asia - when this service is utilised a minimum of a 3 continent fare must be charged.

Seem like we are getting into semantics here - the whole point of the original post was that there is no way of getting from the Americas to Africa on One World without going through Europe in one direction or the other. That reality means that if you want to include any Southern Hemisphere continent (Africa, Australasia, South America) you have to take a minimum *ONE4 - regardless whether you actually touch down on 4 continents or not (although with Africa you have to touch 4 continents).