WP to decrease Y & B fare EQM from 150% to 100% on March 1
Jan 24, 2009 | 3:28 pm
#46
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: CLT
Programs: AA EP, AA AC
Posts: 4,268
Greetings:
All right then kids, we now have unanimity of result here I think. From high rev to low rev elite, DL/NW is looking to fire slash and burn elites. THEY ARE NO BETTER NOW THAN USELESS. GuWonder, not that anyone ever doubted it, but you are right, this fleecing at its finest. As one of the last of the apologists who tried to see the good side, I concede now as well. I am done.
Safe Travels.
All right then kids, we now have unanimity of result here I think. From high rev to low rev elite, DL/NW is looking to fire slash and burn elites. THEY ARE NO BETTER NOW THAN USELESS. GuWonder, not that anyone ever doubted it, but you are right, this fleecing at its finest. As one of the last of the apologists who tried to see the good side, I concede now as well. I am done.
Safe Travels.
Jan 24, 2009 | 3:43 pm
#47
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,527
There have been some very interesting discussions taking place that there are in fact a number of specific circumstance when you actually DO want to frustrate customers. When you have a group of customers who are not making a profitable contribution or worse who are actually taking money from you. (See you WSJ article on Best Buy)
I agree with you -- you need all those different customer segments with customers paying the highest yield that you can extract from them while filling the plane as full as you can. However, that doesn't mean you need to incentivize everyone or base incentives on a simplistic measure such as miles. Instead airlines can differentiate incentives -- and increasingly are. Airlines who have been moving to 25% mileage earning as the standard on competitive economy tickets have been doing better in the market than those whose programs offer 100% mileage. DLNW not only see this, but are now part of the same virtual company that is moving in this direction. After all, when full fare economy is earning more mileage than discounted business class (125%), you know changes are on the way.
$4,000 on deeply discounted fares is still $4,000. If the airline didn't want to sell those fares at those prices, then it wouldn't price them that way - but the fact is, in order to pay to move the planes around, the airline needs nearly full planes. And a plane full of passengers on K fares is better than a plane with 4 people who paid $7k any day of the week.
See: Southwest. Low fares, but full planes.
If you can count on a passenger to regularly fill a seat on your plane at the prices you are charging, that's a good thing. Is it as good as a passenger who pays $7,000 for one seat? No, but you're not going to keep an airline afloat with those types of passengers alone.
See: Southwest. Low fares, but full planes.
If you can count on a passenger to regularly fill a seat on your plane at the prices you are charging, that's a good thing. Is it as good as a passenger who pays $7,000 for one seat? No, but you're not going to keep an airline afloat with those types of passengers alone.
Jan 24, 2009 | 3:43 pm
#48
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: DTW
Programs: DL 0.22 MM, AA 0.34 MM, PC Plat Amb, Hertz #1 GC 5*
Posts: 7,511
Oh... my... word...
Guess all we have to do now is wait for the '09 Plat packages, get the confirms on the web pages, then individually identify how we're going to utilize '09 benefits, and qualify for '10 benefits.
This really, really suprised me. I just never saw this one coming. I was guessing we'd see changes at the bottom-end of the fare bucket... yet just not the top-end.
Guess all we have to do now is wait for the '09 Plat packages, get the confirms on the web pages, then individually identify how we're going to utilize '09 benefits, and qualify for '10 benefits.
This really, really suprised me. I just never saw this one coming. I was guessing we'd see changes at the bottom-end of the fare bucket... yet just not the top-end.
Jan 24, 2009 | 4:07 pm
#49
Original Poster
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still PAL Premier Elite & Hilton Diamond
Posts: 25,429
That's very much in our thoughts. Delta tried that in 2001 but had to back off by 2004 after SaveSkyMiles had extracted sufficient penalty. A bit over a year ago JeffBob did indeed signal that reduced EQM's for discounted fares were again under consideration.
Jan 24, 2009 | 4:15 pm
#50
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: DCA
Posts: 3,395
Are the people that own Saveskymiles still on Flyertalk? I think that domain is going to have to be dusted off again. Looks like DL is giving a go at what they failed to accomplish in 2001.
Jan 24, 2009 | 7:02 pm
#51
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Japan
Programs: UA 1MM
Posts: 5,611
I am one of those customers who always bought B fares on TPAC trips. First of all the pricing difference was negligible, sometimes just a couple of hundred dollars ( or yen equivalent ), it afforded me a possible mileage upgrade, but in any case I collected 150% EQM. Since it seems that they are taking that away, it will be the final nail in the coffin for me. UA still offers the 150% as does CO, who will join *A. On CO though the PE mileage bonus will drop to 125% eff. Mar 1. That is the same as on SM and WP might follow quickly as well. The EQM is of much more value. I think.
Jan 24, 2009 | 7:30 pm
#52
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nashville
Programs: DL DM 3 MM AA PLAT HH Lifetime Diamond Marriott Plat AMB lifetime titanium Hertz PC
Posts: 6,315
The only thing I can think of is they will spin it off ASAP. If not the FF program will not be worth much.
Jan 24, 2009 | 7:30 pm
#53
Original Poster
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still PAL Premier Elite & Hilton Diamond
Posts: 25,429
Jan 24, 2009 | 8:55 pm
#54
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The best state in the USA - Florida!
Programs: Marriott Titanium/LT Plat, AS Titanium, Disney AP
Posts: 14,532
Jan 25, 2009 | 1:53 am
#55
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Japan
Programs: Delta Platiamond SPG Plat Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 74
I really do think this is just a simple matter of the airlines realizing:
I doubt many people buy a B or Y fare because of the 50% bonus. Why give 50% bonus miles when you could make that person use a credit card from a bank that buys EQM off you for cash at 100% margin?
I doubt many people buy a B or Y fare because of the 50% bonus. Why give 50% bonus miles when you could make that person use a credit card from a bank that buys EQM off you for cash at 100% margin?
zero incentive for me to do the same in the future though
Jan 25, 2009 | 8:32 am
#56
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Programs: AA Plat, UA Silver, DL Silver, Marriott Titanium, etc.
Posts: 4,214
No one is going to assume they'll have significant value obtainable out of banked Skymiles in the future.
Jan 25, 2009 | 1:34 pm
#57
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: eastern Europe & NC
Posts: 4,528
There have been some very interesting discussions taking place that there are in fact a number of specific circumstance when you actually DO want to frustrate customers. When you have a group of customers who are not making a profitable contribution or worse who are actually taking money from you. (See you WSJ article on Best Buy)
I agree with you -- you need all those different customer segments with customers paying the highest yield that you can extract from them while filling the plane as full as you can. However, that doesn't mean you need to incentivize everyone or base incentives on a simplistic measure such as miles. Instead airlines can differentiate incentives -- and increasingly are. Airlines who have been moving to 25% mileage earning as the standard on competitive economy tickets have been doing better in the market than those whose programs offer 100% mileage. DLNW not only see this, but are now part of the same virtual company that is moving in this direction. After all, when full fare economy is earning more mileage than discounted business class (125%), you know changes are on the way.
I agree with you -- you need all those different customer segments with customers paying the highest yield that you can extract from them while filling the plane as full as you can. However, that doesn't mean you need to incentivize everyone or base incentives on a simplistic measure such as miles. Instead airlines can differentiate incentives -- and increasingly are. Airlines who have been moving to 25% mileage earning as the standard on competitive economy tickets have been doing better in the market than those whose programs offer 100% mileage. DLNW not only see this, but are now part of the same virtual company that is moving in this direction. After all, when full fare economy is earning more mileage than discounted business class (125%), you know changes are on the way.
Jan 25, 2009 | 3:24 pm
#58
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: MI
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Platinum, National Executive Elite
Posts: 562
I haven't been to the Delta forum today but if what everyone here says is correct and the Y, B fare bonus of 150% eqm is gone so am I. CO here i come for a status match. Thankfully I haven't purchased and travel for 2009 yet. I only have burned all but 9k of NW miles.
Jan 25, 2009 | 3:37 pm
#59
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: DTW
Programs: DL 0.22 MM, AA 0.34 MM, PC Plat Amb, Hertz #1 GC 5*
Posts: 7,511
Please reference:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/11139421-post168.html
Either this is a standard form letter ("to more closely align")...
Or this is confirmation that DL is going to 100% for YBM in '09, and with the alignment of WP to SM means that WP is going to 100% for YB in '09.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/11139421-post168.html
Either this is a standard form letter ("to more closely align")...
Or this is confirmation that DL is going to 100% for YBM in '09, and with the alignment of WP to SM means that WP is going to 100% for YB in '09.
Jan 25, 2009 | 5:40 pm
#60
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Inland Empire!
Programs: NW Plat (formerly), UA 1K, Hilton Silver, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 2,917
WP to decrease Y & B fare EQM from 150% to 100% on March 1
I called the NW PE line just now and asked the lovely agent about EQM earning on Y and B NW fares, after learning that DL is lowering MQM earning on Y, B, M fares to 100% from the current 150%.
She consulted her computer and told me that both Y and B NW fares will earn 150% EQM until March 1, 2009 when the earnings drop to 100%. She said these changes came down from DL and when I asked her if she asked her superviser or consulted her computer, it was from her computer. She apologized for the diminishing value of the WP program. She said she had a mechanism for reporting the customer's opinion about these changes and that she would report my opinion of this new and "exciting" change to create the "best in class" FFP.
I thought others would like to know that NW has matched DLs decrease in EQM on full Y and B fares to 100% starting on March 1, 2009.
Onward to Continental for me.
She consulted her computer and told me that both Y and B NW fares will earn 150% EQM until March 1, 2009 when the earnings drop to 100%. She said these changes came down from DL and when I asked her if she asked her superviser or consulted her computer, it was from her computer. She apologized for the diminishing value of the WP program. She said she had a mechanism for reporting the customer's opinion about these changes and that she would report my
opinion of this new and "exciting" change to create the "best in class" FFP.I thought others would like to know that NW has matched DLs decrease in EQM on full Y and B fares to 100% starting on March 1, 2009.
Onward to Continental for me.