Definitive Guidance on NW upgrades on DL
Jan 11, 2009, 10:53 am
#31
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: DEN
Programs: UA 1K (MM), DL, AA, AS, HHonors, SPG, Kimpton, Hyatt, IC PC, Marriott Titanium (LT PLT), Hertz PC
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Also remember that this policy is not all that different from NW elite upgrades on AS. NW Plats and Golds are put at the bottom of the upgrade list, after all MVP Gold and MVP members. In fact, we're put on the list in the same bucket with those willing to pay for an upgrade - although according to all of the AS agents I've talked to, NW Plats/Golds would still get upgraded before those willing to buy the upgrade.
Jan 11, 2009, 11:16 am
#32
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Inland Empire!
Programs: NW Plat (formerly), UA 1K, Hilton Silver, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 2,917
What does this have to do with growing pains? DL's IT has managed to place NW Plats behind all DL elites in at the gate upgrade situations. I'm not saying it was done consciously, but it is wrong.
There are repeated reports of NW PEs being last or close to it on the upgrade displays at the airport. There are also reports of NW PEs given UP6 priority, while DL PMs are given UP3 (which, coincidentally would easily explain all of the reports of PEs at the bottom of the list). In the rules, it states that NW PEs should be UP3 as well. That has nothing to do with how DL values you, it simply has to do with incorrect implementation of the system. How many times are DL PMs listed at the bottom of the list, when there are also GMs and FOs on the list??
DL and NW are claiming "full upgrade reciprocity", and by the accounts on the DL boards, there have been no problems with DL elites being upgraded as expected on NW flights. Unfortunately that's not the case with NW elites on DL flights. This is something that needs to be fixed.
There are repeated reports of NW PEs being last or close to it on the upgrade displays at the airport. There are also reports of NW PEs given UP6 priority, while DL PMs are given UP3 (which, coincidentally would easily explain all of the reports of PEs at the bottom of the list). In the rules, it states that NW PEs should be UP3 as well. That has nothing to do with how DL values you, it simply has to do with incorrect implementation of the system. How many times are DL PMs listed at the bottom of the list, when there are also GMs and FOs on the list??
DL and NW are claiming "full upgrade reciprocity", and by the accounts on the DL boards, there have been no problems with DL elites being upgraded as expected on NW flights. Unfortunately that's not the case with NW elites on DL flights. This is something that needs to be fixed.
The problem is that the DL elites are not used to having actual reciprocity on another airline, as the NW elites have while traveling on another airline. We NW elites have actual experience with accurate upgrade reciprocity when we travel on CO. It is the difference between that experience (which is totally seamless and completely and perfectly integrated) on CO and the utter disaster of our "seamless integration" with DL, that makes the NW elites feel so alienated by DL. The "alignment" process has become more a "take away process" of the benefits that NW elites have already had, and so the DL elites really can't comprehend that distinction.
Jan 12, 2009, 5:29 am
#33
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: St. Louis MO
Programs: Marriott PP, UA 1K, DL Plat, AA Life Gold, WN A-List
Posts: 382
IT to blame? Hardly.
I am Pltm on NW and Gold on DL.
There are some computer glitches out there, and sometimes you are 'mis-coded' for your up-grade status.
I have this happen every week on DL #22 on DL ticket stock. However yesterday I had time and the very nice agent in the Crown Room in MSY wanted to get an answer to this since she sees me every Friday.
For what ever reason I was 'coded' lower as a DL Pltmn, than any other class available. But only on that flight the other three on the PNR I was coded correctly and upgraded. Per available seats I would have made it using the DL gold #, but since I had checked in that could not be changed.
Long story short, after calls to various people about the problem, she finally went to the station manager with all of the info and he over-rode the computer.
There are computer problems out there, but I fly about 6-8 DL segments a week, and the only problem I have is on flight #22. And this week was a K -fare and that is below mid range I believe.
SO for now I am blaming the problems on IT and not Management
There are some computer glitches out there, and sometimes you are 'mis-coded' for your up-grade status.
I have this happen every week on DL #22 on DL ticket stock. However yesterday I had time and the very nice agent in the Crown Room in MSY wanted to get an answer to this since she sees me every Friday.
For what ever reason I was 'coded' lower as a DL Pltmn, than any other class available. But only on that flight the other three on the PNR I was coded correctly and upgraded. Per available seats I would have made it using the DL gold #, but since I had checked in that could not be changed.
Long story short, after calls to various people about the problem, she finally went to the station manager with all of the info and he over-rode the computer.
There are computer problems out there, but I fly about 6-8 DL segments a week, and the only problem I have is on flight #22. And this week was a K -fare and that is below mid range I believe.
SO for now I am blaming the problems on IT and not Management
Programming does not occur in a vacuum; it represents company policy, notwithstanding a bug.
This is no bug.
Jan 12, 2009, 7:05 am
#34
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: DEN
Programs: UA 1K (MM), DL, AA, AS, HHonors, SPG, Kimpton, Hyatt, IC PC, Marriott Titanium (LT PLT), Hertz PC
Posts: 7,231
- Why would all NW PEs show up on the Gate Information Displays at the bottom of the list?
It seems to me that the "upgrade reciprocity" was only half implemented...
Jan 12, 2009, 7:41 am
#35
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nashville
Programs: DL DM 3 MM AA PLAT HH Lifetime Diamond Marriott Plat AMB lifetime titanium Hertz PC
Posts: 6,190
I totally agree with your assessment.
The problem is that the DL elites are not used to having actual reciprocity on another airline, as the NW elites have while traveling on another airline. We NW elites have actual experience with accurate upgrade reciprocity when we travel on CO. It is the difference between that experience (which is totally seamless and completely and perfectly integrated) on CO and the utter disaster of our "seamless integration" with DL, that makes the NW elites feel so alienated by DL. The "alignment" process has become more a "take away process" of the benefits that NW elites have already had, and so the DL elites really can't comprehend that distinction.
The problem is that the DL elites are not used to having actual reciprocity on another airline, as the NW elites have while traveling on another airline. We NW elites have actual experience with accurate upgrade reciprocity when we travel on CO. It is the difference between that experience (which is totally seamless and completely and perfectly integrated) on CO and the utter disaster of our "seamless integration" with DL, that makes the NW elites feel so alienated by DL. The "alignment" process has become more a "take away process" of the benefits that NW elites have already had, and so the DL elites really can't comprehend that distinction.
Jan 12, 2009, 8:14 am
#36
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,115
Glad I stumbled upon this thread. It explains my 0/4 segments that have been upgraded as a NW plat on my trip that starts today, and none of these flights could described as routes that should be "hard to upgrade". Plenty of experience here upgrading as a top level on NW/CO/UA/AA, and I can't remember one incident in the last 5 years that zero out of 4 upgrades would have processed at the windows - even on CO.
I foolishly decided to tip my toe in the DL water for this trip (yes, a lowly $700 junk-"T/L" fare ticket, how dare I). I only did so based on emails from NW promising upgrade reciprocity on DL. I had been considering some DL routings for several upcoming trips.
Lesson learned. Both in terms of trust in what I'm reading, and in flying DL.
I foolishly decided to tip my toe in the DL water for this trip (yes, a lowly $700 junk-"T/L" fare ticket, how dare I). I only did so based on emails from NW promising upgrade reciprocity on DL. I had been considering some DL routings for several upcoming trips.
Lesson learned. Both in terms of trust in what I'm reading, and in flying DL.
Jan 12, 2009, 8:23 am
#37
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Inland Empire!
Programs: NW Plat (formerly), UA 1K, Hilton Silver, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 2,917
Glad I stumbled upon this thread. It explains my 0/4 segments that have been upgraded as a NW plat on my trip that starts today, and none of these flights could described as routes that should be "hard to upgrade". Plenty of experience here upgrading as a top level on NW/CO/UA/AA, and I can't remember one incident in the last 5 years that zero out of 4 upgrades would have processed at the windows - even on CO.
I foolishly decided to tip my toe in the DL water for this trip (yes, a lowly $700 junk-"T/L" fare ticket, how dare I). I only did so based on emails from NW promising upgrade reciprocity on DL. I had been considering some DL routings for several upcoming trips.
Lesson learned. Both in terms of trust in what I'm reading, and in flying DL.
I foolishly decided to tip my toe in the DL water for this trip (yes, a lowly $700 junk-"T/L" fare ticket, how dare I). I only did so based on emails from NW promising upgrade reciprocity on DL. I had been considering some DL routings for several upcoming trips.
Lesson learned. Both in terms of trust in what I'm reading, and in flying DL.
Me too, I am trying to only fly NW metal for as long as I can.
Jan 12, 2009, 1:34 pm
#38
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,115
Glad I stumbled upon this thread. It explains my 0/4 segments that have been upgraded as a NW plat on my trip that starts today, and none of these flights could described as routes that should be "hard to upgrade". Plenty of experience here upgrading as a top level on NW/CO/UA/AA, and I can't remember one incident in the last 5 years that zero out of 4 upgrades would have processed at the windows - even on CO.
I foolishly decided to tip my toe in the DL water for this trip (yes, a lowly $700 junk-"T/L" fare ticket, how dare I). I only did so based on emails from NW promising upgrade reciprocity on DL. I had been considering some DL routings for several upcoming trips.
Lesson learned. Both in terms of trust in what I'm reading, and in flying DL.
I foolishly decided to tip my toe in the DL water for this trip (yes, a lowly $700 junk-"T/L" fare ticket, how dare I). I only did so based on emails from NW promising upgrade reciprocity on DL. I had been considering some DL routings for several upcoming trips.
Lesson learned. Both in terms of trust in what I'm reading, and in flying DL.
Gotta say, I've held a pretty neutral and open minded view to all the changes coming down that have everyone riled up. But over this, I feel very burned. I don't care if they're not ready to offer these two-way upgrades, but don't announce it and then pull a bait & switch like this. Absolutely bogus
.
Jan 13, 2009, 8:06 pm
#39
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA 1K, AA Exp, HH Dia, WOH Glob, IHG Plat, Marriott Gold, NA EE, Hertz PC
Posts: 17,426
Maybe NWA should accidentally program DL PM's as NW nothings. Then we can reply how it was our plan all along too.
Oct 20, 2009, 4:44 pm
#40
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Inland Empire!
Programs: NW Plat (formerly), UA 1K, Hilton Silver, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 2,917
Amazingly, since the SM/WP merger earlier this month (on the 3rd), the problem with some NW PE getting labeled as "UP6" is still persisting. I saw the GA's computer screen and I as a newly minted SM PM got coded as a UP6, on the upgrade waitlist. I was behind 5 or 6 others, and at least two UP5s on the list. I got a lovely seat in 18D. This was my first time EVER not being upgraded to F since I became PE!
I suggest to any other new PMs that are low on the upgrade list in the next couple of weeks, to see if they are accurately marked as UP3 on the standby list. If they are anything but UP3 then you are being mislabeled, and will undoubtedly not get an upgrade.
I suggest to any other new PMs that are low on the upgrade list in the next couple of weeks, to see if they are accurately marked as UP3 on the standby list. If they are anything but UP3 then you are being mislabeled, and will undoubtedly not get an upgrade.