sxf24

There was never gloating from Chicago, in fact all public comments were quite conciliatory. Also, the engineers ratified their contract on Tuesday.

VIB

It sounds to me like if Delta stuck with 777 orders, you wouldn't have anything to fly on.

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/

hooverer

VIB, I might be mistaken, however from what I recall, the 772LR started out with a few orders, however, now seems to be gaining its "legs" not only in the air, however also in terms of interest from carriers like DL.

Ironically the 741 had major teething issues, more so with the engines that plagued way into initial service deployments resulting in time consuming and expensive fixes with A/C being returned to the factory for medications back in the early 70s.

The verdict is still very much out on the 787 as to did BA prematurely for marketing/PR purpose do a virtual roll-out to meet the 7 / 8 / 07 date (IMHO Yes), vs. taking a more traditional timeline, getting the plane done, delaying the rollout perhaps, not being so late on initial deliveries, yet perhaps facing major rework further down the line after some initial deliveries? We won’t know the full answer until the 787 finally gets into the air, and then delivered and then see how many bugs were actually caught during the current delays or new ones that crop up.

What will be interesting is to see if DL can cut a deal with BA using what ever delay compensation via NW and the large number of options to either a) pass on the 1st couple of airframes including any flight test A/C that would be re-conditioned before delivery, or any A/C before I believe its block #20 or 20th production frame (might be off by a few A/C) when the production wing box and other fixes are to be implemented, meaning a cleaner A/C.

In exchange, BA can sell those A/C to someone who wants an early spot/AC that will be modified, not as clean as later models. Plus DL then aggress to buy and perhaps commit to more options for 777s, mix of 772LR and maybe 77W, plus, re-enforce their commitment to the 787 program by taking delivery of those A/C it has on order further back in the queue that should be cleaner, plus convert some of those to 787-9 plus re-affirm its option position on the 787.

Meanwhile as has been discussed through the threat, DL gets the A/C it needs now and in the future, BA gets some breathing room plus sells some A/C now and a re-affirmation for both 777 and 787 programs, maybe even the 747-8 however not holding my breath.

On the other hand, DL may have to take the early 787 A/C that will be early models, not as clean which they then use for initially PR and limited route proving and familiarity at a more leisurely pace, while deferring A/C that are earlier in the delivery queue, waiting instead for the 787-9 and maybe 787-10 to shape up, meanwhile flying more 777s and keeping the 744s busy.

Either way, IMHO it’s safe to say the 777s will be around and growing and showing up in more NW cities, and we will be seeing DL 787s, it’s just a matter of when. After all, keep in mind the teething issues NW had with the 744s when they were launch customer for that, taking some initial A/C, then deferring some that went to UA, then eventually going back and buying (or leasing) some new ones at a later date.

Oh, almost forgot, meanwhile, even if DL has say by 2010 only a couple of 787 frames in the fleet, will DL (e.g. former/current NATCO) flight training keep their simulators busy selling time to other early 787 customers?

On a related yet different note, will Anderson do with the 767s and 757s at DL what was done at NW with the DC9s, in that refurb them, and keep them flying as long as they can make money at least on the ones that are owned?

Bottom line, smart move of DL to take what ever compensation on the delays, get some more A/C that fit into the fleet plans that they have a more realistic delivery date and performance guarantee of, while taking some time for the new A/C to work its self and the kinks out not to mention for DL to continue to optimize their routes and A/C plans. Im sure we have not heard the last from AB at DL, if nothing else, as a further bargaining tool with/for BA.

-H

VIB

Boy, I totally screwed that up. I meant just the opposite of what I posted. If Delta had taken 787 orders instead of 777LR orders, they wouldn't have any airplanes to fly.

hooverer

Yup, agree...

tomh009

Wow. Based on the Airbus analysis of the 787 -- a stunning find by John Ostrower! -- there could be another very good reason to switch from 787-8 to 777-200LR: range.

If the 787-8 range really is going to be down to 6370 nm, it may not be enough to do what has been widely believed to be the ideal 787 application: point-to-point routes to Asia. If DL/NW really wants to add routes like DTW-SHA or ATL-HKG, the 772 makes all the sense in the world, until the 789 (or at least later versions of the 788) are available, with improved range.

dmitzel

I hope that DL will consider an E+ product on their long-hauls. For those of us corporate business travelers restricted from purchasing F or WBC by corp travel policy, any means to gain some leg and elbow room will be a driver. When presented with the choice between airline A with standard, cramped Y and airline B with a better Y hard product, you can guess which choice will be made.

Those of us prohibited from booking premium will look to leverage elite status for whatever comfort gains that can be had in Y. I think in this economic environment I won't be alone, as premium bookings (read: $$$$) fall faster than economy travel.

VIB

"Boeing delays 787 again; delay 2 years
NEW YORK: Boeing Co pushed back the schedule for its troubled 787 Dreamliner for the fourth time yesterday, making its new plane almost two years late and risking cancellations from angry airlines."

'nuff said.

ed1

A new article on this subject:
Boeing's Dreamliner in holding pattern
Delta merger may push NWA order off course

BY MARY FRANCIS MASSON • FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER • December 28, 2008

Lurker1999

It looks like another signal has been given with Delta not filing SEC regulatory documents listing the 787s:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/busine...167_air04.html

BearX220

This post used to link to an article in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that I thought said something it actually doesn't, hence, massive edit.

3Cforme

You will want to try that again:

The sold aircraft include seven CRJ-100 regional jets, five Boeing 757-200s, four Airbus 320-200s and four DC-9-30s. Also sold were two Boeing 747-200 freighter airframes, which are aircraft without engines, and an Embraer 120 airframe, according to its annual report.

Feeling better?

BearX220

Yes, thanks. I panicked.