"Sky Miles... will be the surviving program"
#61




Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DFW
Programs: Delta MM, Marriott Life Titanium, Hilton Diamond, United Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 2,908
With all due respect, I don't know about that. In CLT for instance, DL elites are very plentiful. DL does not have enough seats from my discussions with its GAs here in CLT to accommodate its own ranks as is. Lord only knows, what 2x eqm will do to that. I don't blame DL, AA or UA one iota for running the related promo for whatever reason each may have (including without limitation, making the April to June nos. look better, to recover from negative press, etc). What I find shocking is that NW did not respond in kind, back in 05 when UA shot across the bow with 2x DEQM, NW responded in kind. One would have thought it would have responded in kind as well here. The fact that it has not is quite disappointing (at least to me). NW elites are rightly nervous (both high rev and high mileage flyers) as best as I can tell, and the defections are beginning as others can chime in on. Going to get really interesting over the next little while I think.YMMV Safe travels to all my Red Tail Flying Compatriots!
1. They probably remember negative fallout from matching the 2x EQM in 2005. I actually leveraged the 2X promo to make a switch from CO and observed several issues with the way it was handled and encountered at least one testy agent along the way because of it.
2. They may be in a sort of fatalistic point of view - they are essentially being acquired by DL - why bother messing with matching promos. I can't help but notice that NW has become very non-competitive on price lately which might go into this thinking.
#62


Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: HYX
Programs: ~IHG(p)/BW~Nat'l.Exec~ ~NW(SE)~ ~Cessna~ NASM.do-07 ~AAAF.do-05/06/07/08/09
Posts: 1,530
RE: "negative fallout from .. the 2x EQM in 2005"
In their defense {checks flame-suit}, it would appear that subsequent promos have benefitted from that 'learning experience' ~ let's hope that carries forward
/.
In their defense {checks flame-suit}, it would appear that subsequent promos have benefitted from that 'learning experience' ~ let's hope that carries forward

/.
#63




Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: BSB
Programs: DL 2 MM
Posts: 4,999
The SM and WP programs may not merge until 2010
Another consideration is that if you fly appr 85K EQM's in 2008 you might want to keep ALL of your flying on one program, either SM or WP, becasue the merger if it occurs in late 2008 or January 2009 may be too late to merge both programs in the program year starting March 1. 2009.
If both programs run another year before merging on march 1, 2010, then some pax might have 40K in SM and 45K in WP and be at the 25K tier in both instead of 75K tier in one program. That would greatly reduce bonus mile earning as well as domestic upgrades.
RC
If both programs run another year before merging on march 1, 2010, then some pax might have 40K in SM and 45K in WP and be at the 25K tier in both instead of 75K tier in one program. That would greatly reduce bonus mile earning as well as domestic upgrades.
RC
#64
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: SEA
Posts: 12,485
Another consideration is that if you fly appr 85K EQM's in 2008 you might want to keep ALL of your flying on one program, either SM or WP, becasue the merger if it occurs in late 2008 or January 2009 may be too late to merge both programs in the program year starting March 1. 2009.
If both programs run another year before merging on march 1, 2010, then some pax might have 40K in SM and 45K in WP and be at the 25K tier in both instead of 75K tier in one program. That would greatly reduce bonus mile earning as well as domestic upgrades.
RC
If both programs run another year before merging on march 1, 2010, then some pax might have 40K in SM and 45K in WP and be at the 25K tier in both instead of 75K tier in one program. That would greatly reduce bonus mile earning as well as domestic upgrades.
RC
#65




Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Alexandria, VA, USA NW Platinum Elite Since 1999, United GoldMM, Hyatt Discoverist, SPG Gold, Hilton Diamond, Hertz #1 Gold, IC Ambassador
Posts: 7,451
I think from an integration of databases, confusion between programs, etc. It would be tough to pull off mid-year, not saying that it couldn't be done, just ALOT of work would need to be done upfront...
Paging KLM... what did they do with the combined "Flyig Blue" did it start mid-year or with a new program year?
Paging KLM... what did they do with the combined "Flyig Blue" did it start mid-year or with a new program year?
#66


Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Upstate, NY
Posts: 3,365
However that is a back end consideration. Once the merger is approved there is no legal reason that each airline can not adjust their own programs to make them converge to a common set of rules/practices/etc...
Right now there are so few difference between the two that only a little tinkering of either would make it match the other. I would not be surprised if soon after the merger is given legal approval, that each airline notifies their elites of changes in their respective programs AND that reciprocal upgrades will be honored, etc etc....and that they will receive new "SkyMiles" credentials with the next year.
#67
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still PAL Premier Elite & Hilton Diamond
Posts: 25,429
You gotta love how the obvious non-software type say how "easy" this will.
A transition of this nature will be one of the large software projects ever undertaken at either company, excepting perhaps the concurrent conversions of reservations & scheduling systems. And remember what happened when US air tried to combine reservations systems. D
NW has WP numbers ("keys") that are 6, 9 & 12 digits in length. I believe (I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong) that SM #'s are 10 digits in length? If that's correct, them the SM system might have trouble accepting recent WP with the 12-digit numbers. Are there any other special users kludged into either system that must be carried forward?
Which end of year? Jan 1, when qualifying mile accumulation restarts, or March 1, when the benefits years restarts? An off-peak, non-holiday month might make more sense, e.g. mid-Jan, April after spring break or Oct./early Nov.
Are duplicate #'s possible? I think not, but maybe ... Some accounts must be merged rather than moved.
Besides the stictly technical programming issues, you also have to scale up the web interface & back end to handle 2X the user load starting on the transition date.
We might never see the full behind-the-scenes story, but it will be quite an effort.
A transition of this nature will be one of the large software projects ever undertaken at either company, excepting perhaps the concurrent conversions of reservations & scheduling systems. And remember what happened when US air tried to combine reservations systems. D
NW has WP numbers ("keys") that are 6, 9 & 12 digits in length. I believe (I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong) that SM #'s are 10 digits in length? If that's correct, them the SM system might have trouble accepting recent WP with the 12-digit numbers. Are there any other special users kludged into either system that must be carried forward?
Which end of year? Jan 1, when qualifying mile accumulation restarts, or March 1, when the benefits years restarts? An off-peak, non-holiday month might make more sense, e.g. mid-Jan, April after spring break or Oct./early Nov.
Are duplicate #'s possible? I think not, but maybe ... Some accounts must be merged rather than moved.
Besides the stictly technical programming issues, you also have to scale up the web interface & back end to handle 2X the user load starting on the transition date.
We might never see the full behind-the-scenes story, but it will be quite an effort.
#68
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Twin Cities
Programs: NW, UA
Posts: 918
"Sky Miles... will be the surviving program"
really?? what a surprise!
duh~
really?? what a surprise!
duh~
#69
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,527
I think from an integration of databases, confusion between programs, etc. It would be tough to pull off mid-year, not saying that it couldn't be done, just ALOT of work would need to be done upfront...
Paging KLM... what did they do with the combined "Flyig Blue" did it start mid-year or with a new program year?
Paging KLM... what did they do with the combined "Flyig Blue" did it start mid-year or with a new program year?
... and the launch of Flying Poo's famous ironic slap in the face slogan: "Generous by Nature".
Merger was effective as of May 2004, so it took them one year to conceptualize and create a new program, migrate & merge members of the two old programs to it and execute a splashy launch with heavy recruiting campaigns for new, unspoiled members ... followed by about 18 months of "user-led testing".
Essentially the old Frequence Plus organisation was in the lead using KL and outsourced resources where appropriate. Those left at KL and FD spent most of their time with their chins on the floor in push-back mode -- a stance which continues until today.
A similar struggle could be expected between NW (the voice of the customer) and DL (the voice of the customer be damned?). Hopefully the WP team will have executive sponsorship and are today furiously creating proof of their link between WP design, customer equity and shareholder value creation. If not, then the title of this thread might indeed become truth.
#70


Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: MEL
Programs: DL, QF, QR Silver, Bonvoy Lifetime Gold
Posts: 7,315
A merger of the two FF programs does not have to be done at the end of the year. In fact, I don't see any added benefits of waiting until the end of the FF program year to do it. All that happens between Feb 28 and Mar 1 is the elite status being reset; everything else pretty much stays the same. The switch may have a great psychological impact (no more plat -> withdrawal, depression,...) but from a database/system standpoint nothing "major" takes place. In fact, migrating the data into the new database (whether it is done a la Flying Blue and it get migrated into a whole new database or WP data is migrated into the SM database) is probably better done independently from the program/procedure that runs the night of Feb 28 that adjusts the Elite status. I would guess there is less risk if these two are done separately.

