NW Domestic First Class - Worst in the industry???
Mar 24, 2004, 7:55 pm
#16
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Santa Ana -SNA
Programs: NW Platinum Since The beginning of Platinum- NW Million Miler
Posts: 227
Have you been to the LAX WC? It's a joke....
I have been there. A few years ago, a group of 38 colleagues and I got together and told one of the WorldClub bosses that we would all sign up with 3-year memberships if they would extend the LAX WC hours to cover the MEM-MSP-DTW "red-eye" departures that used to leave LAX past midnight. NW agreed. We all signed up.
A year later they readjusted (cutback) the schedule & we could no longer use the club for our "red-eye" departures. We asked for a pro-rated refund because NW reneged on their WRITTEN agreement to extend the hours. NW refused. A few other guys pursued it further & got some TCV's & miles. Kind of left a bad taste in my mouth........
I have been there. A few years ago, a group of 38 colleagues and I got together and told one of the WorldClub bosses that we would all sign up with 3-year memberships if they would extend the LAX WC hours to cover the MEM-MSP-DTW "red-eye" departures that used to leave LAX past midnight. NW agreed. We all signed up.
A year later they readjusted (cutback) the schedule & we could no longer use the club for our "red-eye" departures. We asked for a pro-rated refund because NW reneged on their WRITTEN agreement to extend the hours. NW refused. A few other guys pursued it further & got some TCV's & miles. Kind of left a bad taste in my mouth........
Mar 24, 2004, 8:00 pm
#17
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Santa Ana -SNA
Programs: NW Platinum Since The beginning of Platinum- NW Million Miler
Posts: 227
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Radiocycle:
I fly over 200+ domestic segments/year on Northwest aircraft (excluding Mesaba/Pinnacle) and have a 99% success rate I think that speaks volumes for NWA.
I don't see why pax are unhappy with NWA's FC domestic product, I'm happy with it.
RC</font>
I fly over 200+ domestic segments/year on Northwest aircraft (excluding Mesaba/Pinnacle) and have a 99% success rate I think that speaks volumes for NWA.
I don't see why pax are unhappy with NWA's FC domestic product, I'm happy with it.
RC</font>
Mar 24, 2004, 8:02 pm
#18
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Santa Ana -SNA
Programs: NW Platinum Since The beginning of Platinum- NW Million Miler
Posts: 227
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BackOfTheBus:
NW tends to provide the most consistent domestic FC experience: it is by far not the best, but it is the most consistent.
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NW tends to provide the most consistent domestic FC experience: it is by far not the best, but it is the most consistent.
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Thank you for making my point for me: NW FC is consistently by far not the best. THANKS!!
Mar 24, 2004, 8:06 pm
#19
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NW Platinum, SPG Platinum, HHonors Diamond.
Posts: 1,186
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by parkums:
yo kid,
You're 100% dead on with your assessment. Don't let the emotional redcoats here fool you - they're drinking too much of the nwa kool-aid (james page?).
The same points have been brought up by myself and others before. We stay with NWA b/c of the FF program (bonus, promotions, upgrades) ONLY. Everything else is bottom of the barrel (IFE, FC seats, meals, etc.)
The issues you mention are quite noticeable with trans-con flights. NWA doesn't (and can't) compete in the heavy, business trans-con LAX,SFO,NYC,BOS markets. They can get away with lower level of services. Have you been to the LAX WC? It's a joke....
I give NWA leadership a lot of credit for the "business" they run. However, let's not fool ourselves with what product they truly have and target. </font>
yo kid,
You're 100% dead on with your assessment. Don't let the emotional redcoats here fool you - they're drinking too much of the nwa kool-aid (james page?).
The same points have been brought up by myself and others before. We stay with NWA b/c of the FF program (bonus, promotions, upgrades) ONLY. Everything else is bottom of the barrel (IFE, FC seats, meals, etc.)
The issues you mention are quite noticeable with trans-con flights. NWA doesn't (and can't) compete in the heavy, business trans-con LAX,SFO,NYC,BOS markets. They can get away with lower level of services. Have you been to the LAX WC? It's a joke....
I give NWA leadership a lot of credit for the "business" they run. However, let's not fool ourselves with what product they truly have and target. </font>
But as it is, I also fly a lot of segments per year and have been able to fly F class 98% of the time too.
Even with the upgraded amenities that the others may offer, I still would not trade NW in due my 98% close ratio for upgrades.
I do believe that NW realizes this and for that reason they are very stingy with who they give their Platinum Elite status to and why they feel they do not need to compete 100% with other airlines F cabins.
On other airlines Elite status is up for sale, I doubt we will see this with NW. (THANK GOD!!!)
Mar 24, 2004, 8:21 pm
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Santa Ana -SNA
Programs: NW Platinum Since The beginning of Platinum- NW Million Miler
Posts: 227
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TRVLRZ:
Even with the upgraded amenities that the others may offer, I still would not trade NW in due my 98% close ratio for upgrades.
</font>
Even with the upgraded amenities that the others may offer, I still would not trade NW in due my 98% close ratio for upgrades.
</font>
I agree 100% with this statement. Even though other airlines have MUCH better amenities, NW Elite status is TOO GOOD to give up. The 99% upgrade ratio that I have enjoyed over the past five years will keep me coming back!!
Mar 24, 2004, 8:31 pm
#21
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Francisco
Programs: DL DM, 1MM AA PLT 2MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, and...Smiles Diamante
Posts: 2,783
I've said it before, and I'll say it again - NW's food stinks compared to AA or CO, the IFE is non-existent, the seat pitch feels a little tight, and the seats are a little chintzy-- BUT, those weaknesses are all blown away by the fact that top level Elite members get upgraded nearly 100% of the time to First Class. While AA's offer of unlimited upgrades for Executive Platinums diminishes NW's strength in this area to a degree, NW remains the best airline when it comes to frequency with which one finds his or her butt upgraded to a First Class seat.
When I want to "feel like I'm flying in First" (and am willing pay a little more to upgrade), I fly AA.
When I want to almost guarantee myself a First Class seat (with little more expected), I fly NW.
If both I had choice between free unlimited upgrades on AA or NW, I would pick AA in a heartbeat.
[This message has been edited by snorkmaster (edited Mar 24, 2004).]
When I want to "feel like I'm flying in First" (and am willing pay a little more to upgrade), I fly AA.
When I want to almost guarantee myself a First Class seat (with little more expected), I fly NW.
If both I had choice between free unlimited upgrades on AA or NW, I would pick AA in a heartbeat.
[This message has been edited by snorkmaster (edited Mar 24, 2004).]
Mar 24, 2004, 8:49 pm
#22
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: SAN Diego (Hillcrest); formerly LEXington, KY; still like the nym
Programs: DL Platinum; Marriott Lifetime Platinum; married to Hilton Elite
Posts: 3,028
So I guess those of us who don't care for leather and dislike IFE but love the upgrade to a somewhat bigger and wider (did I mention WIDER???) seat, and are also fond of the mostly really nice flight attendants, plus are addicted to the almost 100% upgrade success as platinums (plus drink kool-aid), are just willing to accept an inferior product.
Shucks!
Face it guys, it all comes down to personal preferences. Some of us prefer a less elaborate but consistently provided product, huh? What is best for some is not best for others. It's all subjective. Sheesh! There is no "best" or "worst", get it?
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"It was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity..."
[edited to correct added "ed"]
[This message has been edited by LexPassenger (edited Mar 24, 2004).]
Shucks!
Face it guys, it all comes down to personal preferences. Some of us prefer a less elaborate but consistently provided product, huh? What is best for some is not best for others. It's all subjective. Sheesh! There is no "best" or "worst", get it?
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"It was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity..."
[edited to correct added "ed"]
[This message has been edited by LexPassenger (edited Mar 24, 2004).]
Mar 24, 2004, 8:56 pm
#23
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 3,169
NW elite program is great, i must agree. i may switch from CO next year. and when i do fly NW, i do appreciate the 100% upgrade success rate.
however, i must say (and agree wit some), that thier FC cabin is terrible. the seats are the worst. they are to short, to close together, dirty and scratchy, even in WBC. NW's meal service is terrible. everything all at once. no good. no IFE, not so bad (im more of a reading and MP3 guy), but just seems cheap. but again, its better than coach, the upgrade is easy and the FA's are always nice.
in terms of the worst FC, i think the meal service on HP or DL may lack the most, but HP's cabins on airbus ac are very nice. DL's cabins are starting to look like s#@t.
however, i must say (and agree wit some), that thier FC cabin is terrible. the seats are the worst. they are to short, to close together, dirty and scratchy, even in WBC. NW's meal service is terrible. everything all at once. no good. no IFE, not so bad (im more of a reading and MP3 guy), but just seems cheap. but again, its better than coach, the upgrade is easy and the FA's are always nice.
in terms of the worst FC, i think the meal service on HP or DL may lack the most, but HP's cabins on airbus ac are very nice. DL's cabins are starting to look like s#@t.
Mar 24, 2004, 9:23 pm
#24
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pleasant Prairie, WI USA DL FO (until 2/04), NW silver '03, NW gold '04+'05 Plat '06+ (thanks, Leo!), DL SkyClub
Programs: DL Plat/ Million Miler, AS, Hilton, Marriott Bonvoy, Piggly Wiggly Pig Points
Posts: 2,233
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Radiocycle:
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NW - ABSOLUTELY ZERO domestic inflight music/movies
Others - Full selection
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I think most pax don't want to listen to a video (like Co's intro Video of Gordon and "shorts" whe they are reading, doing work on a laptop, or talking to a business asociate. Many people that want to see a moviw bring the movie they want to watch and a DVD player. It may be wasteful to show movies on a/c that nobody wants to watch (and expensive too!)
RC
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NW - NO FIRST CLASS MEAL SELECTION in the last 2 or 3 seats
Others - Several (more than two) selections
Easy solution to this concern, sit in rows 1 (bulkhead, or rows 2-3 of A320/319 and rows 1-4 on 757's)
RC
[/B]</font>
****************************************
NW - ABSOLUTELY ZERO domestic inflight music/movies
Others - Full selection
****************************************
I think most pax don't want to listen to a video (like Co's intro Video of Gordon and "shorts" whe they are reading, doing work on a laptop, or talking to a business asociate. Many people that want to see a moviw bring the movie they want to watch and a DVD player. It may be wasteful to show movies on a/c that nobody wants to watch (and expensive too!)
RC
***************************************
NW - NO FIRST CLASS MEAL SELECTION in the last 2 or 3 seats
Others - Several (more than two) selections
Easy solution to this concern, sit in rows 1 (bulkhead, or rows 2-3 of A320/319 and rows 1-4 on 757's)
RC
[/B]</font>
Mar 24, 2004, 9:32 pm
#25
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pleasant Prairie, WI USA DL FO (until 2/04), NW silver '03, NW gold '04+'05 Plat '06+ (thanks, Leo!), DL SkyClub
Programs: DL Plat/ Million Miler, AS, Hilton, Marriott Bonvoy, Piggly Wiggly Pig Points
Posts: 2,233
The balance here for me -- and mostly everyone else -- is that NW's upgrade rate for Elites is pretty darn good and it still beats being on Beaver or Jungle Jets.
While I like NW and the upgrades, the points raised about the quality versus other carriers are apt.
I'd`say NW's FC isn't bad--but could be better. One thing it sure isn't is FUN: something that flying hasn't been for a couple of decades.
While I like NW and the upgrades, the points raised about the quality versus other carriers are apt.
I'd`say NW's FC isn't bad--but could be better. One thing it sure isn't is FUN: something that flying hasn't been for a couple of decades.
Mar 24, 2004, 9:41 pm
#26
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: SAN Diego (Hillcrest); formerly LEXington, KY; still like the nym
Programs: DL Platinum; Marriott Lifetime Platinum; married to Hilton Elite
Posts: 3,028
Dick: I don't believe it trivializes a post to point out that not all are in agreement.
IFE is an interesting variable. Most pax like it, some hate it. I'm among the haters -- it is boring and makes the other folks angry that I, at the window, do not want to put the shade down.
It is a distinguishing characteristic among service providers. Among the many reasons I am currently choosing NW, NO IFE is one. If others want to choose other carriers based on their IFE provision, more power to them.
It manifestly does not trivialize the post to suggest that many passengers do not care for IFE, because in point of fact MANY PASSENGERS DO NOT CARE FOR IFE.
The rest of you are free to choose among the many other airlines who are more than happy to provide you with domestic IFE. If Northwest goes broke not catering to that taste, they and I will both be very unhappy.
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"It was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity..."
IFE is an interesting variable. Most pax like it, some hate it. I'm among the haters -- it is boring and makes the other folks angry that I, at the window, do not want to put the shade down.
It is a distinguishing characteristic among service providers. Among the many reasons I am currently choosing NW, NO IFE is one. If others want to choose other carriers based on their IFE provision, more power to them.
It manifestly does not trivialize the post to suggest that many passengers do not care for IFE, because in point of fact MANY PASSENGERS DO NOT CARE FOR IFE.
The rest of you are free to choose among the many other airlines who are more than happy to provide you with domestic IFE. If Northwest goes broke not catering to that taste, they and I will both be very unhappy.
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"It was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity..."
Mar 24, 2004, 9:53 pm
#27
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pleasant Prairie, WI USA DL FO (until 2/04), NW silver '03, NW gold '04+'05 Plat '06+ (thanks, Leo!), DL SkyClub
Programs: DL Plat/ Million Miler, AS, Hilton, Marriott Bonvoy, Piggly Wiggly Pig Points
Posts: 2,233
Actually, the comment I felt was trivialized more was about meal selection and the flippant response that if you don't like it, sit in a row at the front. (Note: we always don't have control over seat assignment.)
I hear you about IFE -- but that's why they have headsets.
I hear you about IFE -- but that's why they have headsets.
Mar 24, 2004, 9:57 pm
#28
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 5,075
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by LexPassenger:
IFE is an interesting variable. Most pax like it, some hate it. I'm among the haters -- it is boring and makes the other folks angry that I, at the window, do not want to put the shade down.</font>
IFE is an interesting variable. Most pax like it, some hate it. I'm among the haters -- it is boring and makes the other folks angry that I, at the window, do not want to put the shade down.</font>
As for window shades, those who sit in the window seats control the window shades. It's as simple as that. Even on NW flights, if passenger A likes to read and have a reading lamp and passenger B right beside wants to sleep, it's ultimately passenger A who controls his/her own reading lamp.
Similarly, if I am on a NW flight and you like to keep the window shade open and I'd like to sleep, I can still ask you to lower the shade (a request which you are free to refuse).
Ultimately, lighting and views are shared by the entire cabin. If you want your window shades up, keep them up. If you don't, close them down.
[This message has been edited by keithguy (edited Mar 24, 2004).]
Mar 24, 2004, 10:13 pm
#29
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Santa Ana -SNA
Programs: NW Platinum Since The beginning of Platinum- NW Million Miler
Posts: 227
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by snorkmaster:
If both I had choice between free unlimited upgrades on AA or NW, I would pick AA in a heartbeat.
[This message has been edited by snorkmaster (edited Mar 24, 2004).]</font>
If both I had choice between free unlimited upgrades on AA or NW, I would pick AA in a heartbeat.
[This message has been edited by snorkmaster (edited Mar 24, 2004).]</font>
This is the EXACT point that I was trying to make with the original post on this subject: NW MUST MUST MUST continue to offer superior benefits for Elite members (bonus miles, upgrades, promotions) because if all frequent flyer programs were the same, NW would be most travelers LAST choice!!
Mar 24, 2004, 10:23 pm
#30
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Santa Ana -SNA
Programs: NW Platinum Since The beginning of Platinum- NW Million Miler
Posts: 227
Quick question for Radioman and others who think I am off-base:
Why should the FIRST CLASS passenger in seat 4D be treated differently than the passenger in 2D??? There is a 90+% chance you will not get a selection of meal in 4D!!!
The grandmother in seat 22E even gets a choice of meal!!!!
How about this: Before spending millions & millions to put in new WBC seats on the widebodies, how about catering an extra couple of meals for your domestic flights so your supposed "premium" passengers can get something they want?? Would that be too much to ask??
Why should the FIRST CLASS passenger in seat 4D be treated differently than the passenger in 2D??? There is a 90+% chance you will not get a selection of meal in 4D!!!
The grandmother in seat 22E even gets a choice of meal!!!!
How about this: Before spending millions & millions to put in new WBC seats on the widebodies, how about catering an extra couple of meals for your domestic flights so your supposed "premium" passengers can get something they want?? Would that be too much to ask??