bwallet, IMHO, accusing everyone who flies with a crying baby of having bad character and being rude or inconsiderate says much more about you than them. But, of course, it is all about you isn't it? How pompous.

Yes remarkable in the sense he had no consioderation that he was taking over some body else's seat and the presumption a child always mean inconvenience. It is the presumption that somebody is benefiting at your expense, or that you are going to suffer that makes people incosiderate. Moreover he spilled a drink not my son!!!!.


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Sunil

You must be kidding Noise cancelling technology enhances the irritating qualities of infant screaming. It eliminates the muffling qualities of the engine/airstream noise and allows for unadulterated enjoyment of high frequency wailing.

Cheers,

birdstrike

I have always tended to think that kids were just a fact of life aboard a plane, like the loud guy in the seat behind, or the shrill announcements that the seatbelt light means to put your seatbelt on. I've only had a couple of flights with noisy children in F or J, and have just assumed it was a fluke--why would there be children in Business Class?

In the last 36 hours my opinion has changed.

I just did 16 hours on a PR flight from MNL to SFO in business class yesterday. There were not one, not two, but SEVEN screaming demon-spawn rugrats between maybe 6 months and three years split between C and F.

The entire flight, the infants did a round-robin thing where one would scream at the top of its lungs long enough to start the next one off. The toddlers ran wild through the entire plane, strewing toys and smearing food everywhere. Parents either ignored them completely or looked on with indifference.

My Bose noise-cancellers were actually more effective than I thought they would be at muffling the howling. But they were of no help when the 2-year-old behind me decided that the top of my seatback was the perfect place to stage his truck battle while I was trying to sleep. Or when the sticky juice cup came flying over the back of the seat next to me.

The woman next to me mumbled something about putting them in cages and I'm afraid for the moment I agreed with her, as long as they were in the hold.

When I was that age, my mother always gave us Dramamine before long car trips to prevent carsickness, or flights to prevent planesickness. Now that I think about it, we were also usually medicated against moviesickness and churchsickness too. Maybe she was onto something.

-alan in seattle

Most kids in the states are medicated without being on an airplane (say ritalin).

As a AA million miler flyer that flew almost exclusively first class with my daughter for the first two years of her life I can tell you the condemning looks and attitudes of fellow passengers if and when a child cries only makes matter worse! It stresses the parent in an already stressful situation. From a parents standpoint it's hard enough too fly with a lap child, but flying in first certainly is a step up from trying to maneuver a child with varying needs in coach. At least in first the juice or the space to get up and walk the child so they do settle down is available. Obviously anyone having flown with a small child will appreciate the challenge, yet we will all attest to in every walk of life there are good children and yes there are brats but I think we can say the same about the array of adults! (In and not in FC)

Under similar circumstances, I'd try moving, too. But if the seat owner showed up at the last moment, I'd go back if the person didn't want to trade.

No, children don't always mean inconvenience, of course. But IMHO the risk is terribly high, with no corresponding benefit...

[quote]<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by taucher:

Quote:

Originally posted by Yaatri:
Under similar circumstances, I'd try moving, too. But if the seat owner showed up at the last moment, I'd go back if the person didn't want to trade.

No, children don't always mean inconvenience, of course. But IMHO the risk is terribly high, with no corresponding benefit...

I udnerstand what you are saying taucher. But you keep missing my point. Int this case, the adult proved he was worse that the child he feared. The point I am trying ti make is, we can not go through life pitting one gripou against another. I fear people who prejudge others based on age, colour or race morte than anything else in the world. I like brats no more than anyone else. But why do we have brats in the first place? Brats are not born that way. It's incosiderate people, who only see their side of the coin, who raise brats. I am afraid some of the people who are complaining about children are guilty of the same......only seeing their side of the story


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Sunil

I understood your point about the irony of the man moving and then spilling on himself, but I wasn't sure if you would have condemned him for merely moving. If not, apologies for wasting your time.

I don't understand why you have so much of a problem with this (beyond the man moving before the doors were closed and he was sure the seat he moved to was empty - that was bad). People have differing levels of tolerance for infant behavior. Whether in FC or coach I have no desire to hear infants vocalize, or watch them smear breakfast over themselves, their parents, and the seats. It's just not one of lifes little pleasures when travelling. When visiting or being visited by friends who have children, the rules change completely.

While there are certainly bratty children, and inattentive parents, most children are simply children and thus fit the definition of being childish almost perfectly.

This isn't prejudice, as you seem to imply.

Many people do not enjoy sitting beside someone who behaves childishly be they 1, 10, 20, or 50!

It's been my observation that parents become inured to the behavior of their children and it is the rare parent who can still remember what life was like before they had them.

I think this leads to most of the problems we see whith children on airplanes. The childs behavior at home becomes accepted behavior in public because the parents are simply too worn out to notice anymore.

but what do I know

birdstrike

"You must be kidding - Noise cancelling technology enhances the irritating qualities of infant screaming. It eliminates the muffling qualities of the engine/airstream noise and allows for unadulterated enjoyment of high frequency wailing."

I disagree. I always listen to music with my NC-10's and I have to hit the button to be able to hear what the F/A is saying when she asks me a question. The musinc is what really drowns out the high pithed stuff. I've been seated near loud children and loud adults on flights, and this is by far the best way to deal with them when you want quiet. Just drown 'em out.

I've never heard a child wail loudly for more than a couple of minutes on a plane. As far as the original argument goes, I think kids have just as much right to a seat up front as any paying (or upgraded with miles) customer does. If a kid cries, well, that's just part of life. I'm sure all of us embarassed our parents when we were young by doing something inappropriate at the time. If an older kid is a little Hellion during the flight, well that's the fault of the parents, but it's easy to just ignore them anyway. I don't make it my business to poke my node in other people's business.

Most kids I see on planes are better behaved than a lot of adults I've run into.

Odd. My experience has been the exact opposite.

I still vividly recall a red-eye several years ago where one kid howled every hour or so, jarring everyone within range awake. That kid was a prime candidate for sedation.

As for adults, with the exception of one guy who was a jerk on the ground but fine in the air, I haven't noticed any problems at all.

You must lead a charmed life or not fly very much if you've never seen adults act like jerks in the air.

No, they have not. Or if they have, they have personally abrogated any responsibility for cessation of the infant's crying to another; and if they haven't done that, they are sure their baby is allowed to cry, since other parents (strangers) allow their kids to cry, and this will show them.

In short, they have not paid their dues in having to quiet an unhappy bawler, and cannot share in that frustrating moment of common humanity. They are innocents who have not seen the elephant, and we may grant them a certain leeway in their complaining; as they grumble, we cannot help smile at them. There is a certain freshness to their naivete in the ways of life. They are boys.

Must be a charmed life....