I find those who loudly talk on their cellphones on the airplane obnoxious. If you want to talk on your cellphone, you can go sit back in coach.

Congestion-related equalization difficulties, teething, etc. will cause chronic crying.

I'm not advocating that...just responsibility in whatever cabin.

I have a right to peacefully enjoy a seat which I have purchased. I do not disturb others. It is just amazing that American parents expect others to make sacrifices for their children. Other societies are not like that. If the child cannot fly quietly without disrupting other passengers, a considerate person would not fly with the child until it could behave appropriately. The cases where a small child HAS to fly are virtually zero.

Are we talking about babies or brats? I am sorry that you can not tolerate a crying baby. Even parents with a crying baby have a right to fly, your wishes notwithstanding Bwallet. Now a brat is another matter. That belogns in the dpmain of proper upbringing and manners and we can not legislate manners and consideration for fellow passengers. I have seen some grown men act look at children with such disdain that I wonder if they had children of their own. Once a man refused to sit next to my wife in FC, who was holding my son in her lap. He moved over to waht he thought was a vacant seat. A few minutes later a lady walked in and discovered that her seat had been commandeered by this man. Being a lady she was, she smiled at him and sat next to my wife. Now listen to this. Guess who spilled their drink during beverage service. Not my son, but the man who refused to sit next to my wife. Children do spill drinks sometimes. But this was poetic justice. I have had my son spill sprite on me on a transatlantic flight. Ihave been babbling so I had better stop.




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Sunil

Yeah! It can stay at home and take care of itself!

Nah, not true. Every six months or so, it needs to be transferred from one group of grandparents to the other.

You find this remarkable???

Sarcasm not withstanding, the times when a baby has to fly are virtually nil. It may be more convenient for the lifestyle of the parents, but it is almost never required. And, most Americans think "if it is was is most convenient for me, I do not care what suffering it may inflict upon others."

Yes, some adults can be disruptive as well, and I do not hold them in high regard either. But, that's not the discussion at hand. Subjecting others in a confined area to a baby screaming is rude and thus a sign of bad character.

No doubt exactly the same thing can be said for anyone flying.

What tickles me is the assumption that parents are simply asleep at the mute switch, and that they have perversely chosen not to simply employ this mechanism otherwise totally under their control. I believe that in most cases decent people are acutely aware of their babies, and embarassed at any ongoing noise.

A gentleman grins and bears it, and smiles at the little bawler and his harried mother. A gentleman does not get huffy and indignant at an infant. A gentleman does not lose his aplomb over a simple, ever present fact of life, that it is an infant's job to call attention to itself. Finally, a gentleman does not use the occasion of an infant's whining as an invitation to whine himself, as though age alone has entitled him to preeminence in justifiable harrumphing and grumbling, and as though the mere passage of time should hold him proof against the futile and unrefined efforts of a young and impertinent upstart to express disfavor.

I apologise for sarcasm. But the reality is thatchildren in flight can not be banned. it is childish to think that a child is taken on a flight for frivolous reasons. Their are children whose grand parents live halfway across the world. The point is that we have to allow babies to be babies. It's not to excuse misbehaved children. It is more pleasant to not have a screaming baby on your flight, but if there is one, you have to be a gentleman and put up with it.



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Sunil

Ronin, would that be a 19th century gentleman, or did you have something more medieval in mind?

[This message has been edited by taucher (edited 06-24-2002).]

Parents move and jobs change - are you going to leave your kid behind? Also, if you're an expat wouldn't you like to go 'home' at least about once a year? As for parent with kids - fly any S-American, South Asian or Southern European airline to not have to deal with some of the people above. People flying on US airlines seem to be far less considerate and far more self centered (witness the amount of carry-on and some of the responses here).

Parents move. But, are most babies flying because their parents are moving? I doubt that. And, yes, expats LIKE to return home. And, they should be vacationing IF they can do it without making themselves an undue burden upon others.

If a baby can't not cry nonstop on a flight, a decent and polite parent would wait a year or two. A selfish parent with bad character would decide their desires are above the comfort of others and fly anyhow. The world is full of bad people who inconvenience others for their own satisfaction. The fact that people do it doesn't make them a decent person.

I never suggested children should be banned. I was raised properly so I do not complain or make a scene or anything. I just grin and ignore the noise. I was raised not to point out specific individuals who are inconsiderate. I was raised to tolerate it and understand that some people are just rude. *shrugs* Heck, I smile and try to assist when and if it is appropriate. But, it is still unfair and rude to bring a baby who is not ready to behave onto an airplane except in the most unusual of circumstances. It is not my child, and though I will give up my comfort for the parents' convenience, it is bad of the parents to expect me to do so.

As for parents being aware of the noise the baby makes, fine. They are aware they are imposing on others, and they still choose to do so. I never said they were accidental, I said they were rude and inconsiderate. Being aware that you are being incosiderate and deciding it was ok is worse than not knowing.

Besides, what type of a parent would take a baby who can't understand what is happening and subject it to changing pressures, questionable air quality, and scary noises? A parent who cares about the well being of the baby? Perhaps they are inconsiderate of their own children as well as others? That's okay though because it is what is most convenient for them, and it is all about them, after all, isn't it?

BTW, noise cancelling headphones won't help. I can assure you that a screaming baby is primarily high frequency.

[This message has been edited by bwallet (edited 06-22-2002).]

I think it's policy that children under a certain age are not allowed in FC.

There are of course circumstances when it happens.

Maybe the person with child was "bumped" or "denied" on the previous flight and this was the only seat available on the next flight.

That is just one example of why it might happen. Another, which happened to me recently, a "well-off" family of 6 had bought full-fare FC tickets for the entire lot.

Careless father, demanding mother, one screaming toddler (in a paid seat), two messy twin boys, two girls complete with their entire Barbie collection spread out everywhere, and one young teen playing nintendo and listen to walkman.

When they left the cabin (with millions of bags), it was like a tornado had hit. Crumbs, crackers, peanuts, napkins, paper towels, pillows, blankets and GUM EVERYWHERE.

And you know what? Thos pillows and blankets were just put back in to the bins by the cleaners.

What parent INDEED!!! How dare people get on a boat for three months and cross the ocean to come populate this country with their children. My GOD!!! They might have breathed stale air down there, and gotten sea sick. They should have waited until Carnival Cruise lines arrived to accomodate them in a more civilized manner a few hundred years later.

I do have to wonder whether the biggest critics of crying babies have had children themsleves.