This class warfare is really getting old
 

Perhaps you could explain why I left the union job I had to take a nonnion job doing the exact same work in the exact same industry and my pay at the union shop was 24% of the pay I have now, I never got a bonus at the union job and have gotten two five figure bonuses in less than a year at the nonunion job. I get better work schedules now, I get better work assignments now, and I travel a lot which I love.

If my employer told me I had to take a 25% pay cut to keep my job and keep the company going, I would either accept it or find another job. But I wouldn't try to deliberately ruin the company that puts food in my kids' mouths. Only in the union mind is no income better than 75% of your income. Only in the union mind is a company losing millions a month able to keep doing it indefinitely.

There is a reason the union movement is dying in this country. I have ALWAYS negotiated better deals for myself and had much more job satisfaction at nonunion jobs than the three union jobs I have held. And in my present company, incompetent employees are terminated. At a union shop, they are kept on the payroll as long as possible.

Unions need to go away. They no longer serve a useful purpose.

--Paul

Isn't that what WN FA's do all the time? ;) Glad to hear crews were working hard and with good attitude though.

Let's all of us help the Flight Crew by taking our newspapers and other trash with us when we deplane.

Another simple thing we can all do is to keep the lavatory neat. On a flight from MSP to AMS a few years ago for some reason we were short a lavatory and the lead FA asked, over the PA system, that we use our paper towels to wipe out the sink before we left the lavatory. I have tried to do that ever since.

Just one way we can show our appreciation to them for putting up with the extra stress and complexities of this situation.

Snickers
 

ROTFL! Thanks mate! I am going on pay pal as we speak. Would you like a 4 pack of Red Bull to go with that? That's our family drink, well, sort of. Mine is Fiji Rum and Diet Coke, Bounty Rum -- to be specific.

-Alan

No Problem, NOLAnwGOLD; SchmutzigMSP never got back to me... but, It will only be for one... as I was a bit more generous a few hours ago BEFORE I got to the mini-baccarat table.....

I doubt there was an abstention box on their ballot.

The question of how many voted is an important one, I agree, but the announcement distinctly says 92% of members, not 92% of the members voting. They really ought to just publish the number of yeas and nays though and let us draw our own conclusions.

Inadequate??? It's not like NWA pulled these guys from the 15 min Quik-Lube down the street. Do you hold any ratings from the FAA? It doesn't seem like you know much about airplanes or the people that fly and keep them in the air. Maybe you're a member of the media, I dunno.

This is more than just interesting reading...it's a bit chilling.

Uh huh.. without collective bargaining.. wages would just go up and up.. :rolleyes:

You would just be happy with it... oh 25% off my paycheck, well ok swell! Hey thanks management... hey enjoy your multi-million dollar bonus this year! (I am not bitter) lol right sure you would..


So are you a skilled worker or a semi skilled worker? One with a large pool of people who do the same thing you do?, or some sort of specialized consultant. Without any sort of union and with a pool of people as with NW that could replace you, why would any company negotiate with you? They would simply dictate. NWA just continues the trend.


You can go look at a place like China.. The unions in China are mostly paper-tiger affairs that are setup by the Chinese government. People are poisoned by toxic fumes. Migrant workers are often fired after working for a season and not paid. Industrial accidents are common, and the govt. mostly turns a blind-eye. Have fun.... :p

Specifically for Derrico...

I understand and respect the argument you're making regarding unions, particularly the bit about China (though let's not forget that they're a communist nation...unions there are a bit different than they are here). You're right, workers there have to deal with extremely poor working conditions, industrial accidents, etc. etc. Very much the way that workers here had to deal with those issues in the first quarter of the 20th century. However...those issues in America have, for the most part, been settled. And were settled long ago. Yes, by labor unions. But...IMO labor unions have outlived their need. During that first quarter of the 20th century, there was no Internet, there were no video cameras, there were few "muckraking" journalists (and the ones that did exist eventually helped the unions bring down the big businesses). In today's world, there simply isn't the need for a union to guarantee safe working conditions. Unsafe conditions would be plastered all over the 'Net, leading every newscast and be plastered all over CNN in endless loops 24 hours a day.

Wages are another matter entirely. A union can scream and yell all it wants about pay scale. At the end of the day (or end of the CBA, whichever comes first) the company will pay what it considers market value for the work. It is what it is. Like it or not, unions need to realize that the days of guaranteed high wages are GONE. And workers need to realize that as well. For most people, the days of having 1 job for 25 years (at high wages) are over. In the current day and age, you need to keep growing your skills, looking for better positions (better meaning both higher pay and more security), etc. for your entire working life. We are living in a brutally Darwinian job market. Period.

I had quite a bit of support and empathy for the mechanics cause until I saw this quote! The only ones getting screwed now are the decent hardworking people whose leadership sounds like a bunch of thugs.

interesting facts from Sunday Minneapolis Star Tribune
 

"Of the roughly, 4,430 striking employees, about 2,900 actually work on the aircraft. The others include about 800 cleaners whose pay and benefits cost the airline an average of $54,000 anually.

Northwest mechanics, who were at the top of the scale, were earning $36 an hour before the strike occurred. AMFA mechanics who cross picket lines and return to work at NWA can expect to be paid $26.53 an hour.

"We certainly do not consider them terminated," Julie Hargen Showers, NW's vice president of labor relations, said of the striking mechanics.

Late Friday night 57 planes were listed out of service, compared with the norm of 15 or fewer."

In today's world labor practices are as bad as ever, with overseas sweatshops producing the majority of our goods. Even in the USA several investigative authors have exposed pretty awful conditions at midwestern meat-packing plants, where safety is lax and workers (mainly immigrants, often illegal and in no position to complain about it) are losing fingers left and right. Yet these practices can hardly be characterized as "leading every newscast". Even if labor has become irrelevant in many US workplaces, it is still needed in some, and desperately needed in 3rd world countries.

Well, I could explain it by hypothesizing that you're not being truthful, or by explaining to you that being union or non-union is irrelevant. It's simply BS to ask employees to take 25% pay cuts, vote to lay off half of their co-workers, and do away with their pension plan -- all while management is paying themselves millions, locking in their pension, and continuing to cash in stock options at an unbelievable rate.

The management at NW is certainly incompetent, and they get bonused for it. So sorry if your argument about unions seems pretty irrelevant to me.

It's not all that hard to determine right from wrong here. At least not to me. I am convinced, at this point, that those who can look at the facts of this and still side with management are just looking for yet another way to step on the face of the workers. There is definitely a class warfare going on in this country BUT it's the greedy elite against the average working joe, not the other way around.

Where in the heck do you get this information??? Major companies spend hundreds of thousands if not millions EVERY year on lobbyists to induce congress to reduce safety standards for employees and their rights to compensation if they are injured on the job. For you to say safety issues are no longer a problem just SCREAMS ignorance on this issue. But that of course doesn't stop anyone from having an opinion. I'm sorry if that sounds rude, but there is nothing more rude, in my book, than a person boldly speaking to an issue as if they actually knew what they were talking about when it's perfectly clear they haven't a single fact in hand about the topic.

No, it would not be on CNN for gawd's sake. They are much too busy ignoring the deaths in Iraq and focusing on stories like the runaway bride. But hey, that's a new one -- "if it's not on CNN, it's not happening." Ho boy, unbelievable.

As for wages, again you act as the voice of authority, but in reality are without a clue. There wouldn't be a decent living wage in this country for skilled labor without unions. To be against unions you have to be against a decent living wage. To be against unions you have to believe that one side (management) is entitled to a team of people to advance their side, but the other side is not.

And the comment about "growing your skills" is just pure baloney. They aren't scabbing with people with more skills. They are scabbing with people who don't care that they are driving down wages for others. You can grow your skills all you want but if companies continue to race to the bottom you will find YOURSELF at the bottom eventually as well. You're not immune, much as you might wish to believe you are. And when your boss comes in and says, hey, we're going to pay you 25% and take away that 401K you thought you'd have for retirement, don't be surprised when there is no one left to say that's not right.

The solution is simple -- stop paying management huge salaries for making incompetent decisions, ask employees how to cut waste and be more efficient, then charge what it costs to fly the passenger.