Sorry, I flew NW today -- another work week for me, and another few-hundred-dollars in support of NWA.

Both flights (through DTW) on time, too.

I'm willing to tolerate some delays until this all sorts itself out, although I haven't had to do it, yet.

While reading all the NW strike talks, I came across these gems: Check out this quote by LTRS, the union man's best friend , on a previous NW thread:


ChecQuote:
Originally Posted by yogimax
The problem is not with the planes. If you read the recent threads, you will see that NW is in the midst of a labor dispute with its mechanics. Someone will discover, e.g., that an ashtray needs to be replaced ... the result - a six hour delay. We all hope the union will see that they are losing public support rapidly with such actions and, indeed, endangering their own jobs.


Reply by LTRS:Posted by LTRS Jul 30, 05, 3:16 am

Yeah, I got the email about the possible strike and saw others commenting on that here, but YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME! What in the world do the mechanics think they have to gain by making the airline go broke? That's the stupiest labor tactic I have ever heard of!

Followed by this post a couple weeks later:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjcasta
Reagrdless of your position on the strike . . .
This is not a debate on who is right or wrong . . .
What would you do?? .....When you add it up, the actual loss in net pay is around 45-55%. Sooooo, what would you do????

[B]Reply by LTRS Aug 20, 05, 2:46 pm

I'd vote to strike. As a FF I would exercise my right NOT to fly with that airline, which is exactly what I have done. Good luck to NWA mechanics. This FF is with you![/B]


Mods - hopefully you suspended the right LTRS - there appears to be TWO completely different ones out there! :D :D :D

Trouble on the Horizon
 

My totally uneducated, unsolicited and unscientific guess . . .

The fun begins on August 26th - 28th. Line checks for most a/c are due every 8 days and this will start to weigh upon the available resources.

Also, there apparently is growing concern that maintenance items are being deferred when permitted. These are starting to pile up and Pilots are being advised to be vigilant regarding logbooks and releases.

Hey, pass me another straw, this camel can take it!

What to expect flying on Weds?
 

So I met friends from NYC down in Phoeniz for the weekend. I Flew Delta from PDX and made it no problem. They had non-stop tickets booked on Northwest, and their erly AM flight was cancelled on Friday. Northwest re-booked the on Continental and they were then flown from Newark to Boston to Detroit to Phoenix. Arriving at 9:30 PM Friday night, as opposed to 10:30 or so Friday morning. Their luggage was delayed and not delivered by Northwest until Saturday at around 11:30pm. For this hastle, they were each given a $25 dollar voucher for any flight over $200.

Any idea what they can expect for the ride home on Wednesday? I'm a true blue United flier, so I haven't paid much attention to what's been going on with Northwest... Any info you all can offer would be much appreciated!

Message Deleted Due To Violation of TOS

A Couple of Thoughts
 

Well, here's my two cents, for whatever their worth (get it? 2 cents? OK bad joke)

1. DrBeeper, you previously stated, "Why do employee-owned firms generally fail?" Thus, it seems that your statement already assumes that employee-owned firms do generally fail. More for my own intellectual sake, is there any data to back this up? I don't mean any anecdotal stories, but actual economic studies, and those which prove causation between the firm being employee-owned, and it having a higher rate of failure b/c of this type of ownership? This may be naive, but if you have an ownership stake in that which employs you, wouldn't you really want the best people running your firm; after all, it is not just your ownership-stake on the line, but also your job!

2. Though most posters here seem to place blame on one side or another, am I alone in seeing this situation from both ends? Both sides have legitimate concerns, and have done questionable things to get to where we are today. So instead of debating, what the fair market salary of a mechanic is/should be, why aren't we debating what a solution should/could be...b/c after all, isn't that what we all want? This isn't a zero-sum game. If "either" side loses, NW itself will lose in the end. And in turn, we, as the flying public, will lose as well.

3. With regards to LTRS <Moderator Edit> He is entitled to his opinion, as equally you are yours. If you don't agree with him, that's fine. If anything, I would think that his dissenting viewpoint would only serve to strengthen your POV. But in the off-chance that he has not completely lost it, and has some truth to what he is saying, aren't you better off hearing it? Call me naive, but I tend to believe that dissent is usually a good thing, as it helps spur a robust debate of ideas, and in turn, leads to a closer attainment of the truth.

So with that being said, I hope I don't get flamed. Constructive criticism is always welcome. But, if you are just going to go off on me, and my naive/liberal/etc. viewpoints, let me just apologize now for having wasted your time.

No flame here, but as to the now-suspended FT member, resorting to constant name-calling , making remarks to other FT talk members such as "If there is a God, you will be laid off on Monday", "you're still an elitist effin ahole. You know, and I know it.", and continually bashing people for their political beliefs is inappropriate and a violation of the rules of participation in this forum. Comments such as those - and many others that were made - are hardly the "robust debate of ideas" nor will lead to "a closer attainment of the truth" - to paraphrase your comment.

Granted, many of us -myself included- have an occasional lapse of judgment, get carried away with our rhetoric, and fly off the handle, but we generally come to our senses and recover. Some of us even apologize! This person just kept getting more personal, desperate, and out of control with the abusive remarks and condescension towards anyone who didn't see things exactly their way.

Posting here is a privilege, not an entitlement. The FT Forum has rules - like them or not - abuse them over and over again, and you're gone. Opinions are one thing. Continually launching personal attacks on other members is another - and that is clearly where this member chose to go. Let's not get the two confused. And let's not defend those who have an easily verifiable track record of posting rude, abusive, hateful (telling someone you hope they get FIRED?) name-calling messages and act as though the rules apply to everyone else but them!

good point
 

Oilfield was so depressed for so long that I hardly thought about it any more. If the high prices of oil are sustained, you are right, a plus for us on the Gulf Coast will be the increase in good jobs here. A case of every cloud having its silver lining.

Thank you! I have been trying to stay out of all of this debate since the strike started, because I REALLY don't like the tone and content of many peoples posts. This is not at all referring to their opinions, but rather the blatent disrespect people are showing towards other. :td: :(
I have always liked the way people have treated eachother on this Forum, and I hope we can all find the decency to keep things civilized. Come on, I know some of us have that "Minnesota Nice" at heart! :p

bnrdad,

I wasn't fully aware of the provocative and questionable manner in which LTRS was expressing himself, so I apologize for my own misunderstanding of the situation. I took much of the criticism to be directed at his point of view, not the manner in which he/she expressed it. I just wanted to make sure a dissenting opinion was not being unfairly censored b/c of the content of the message. However, due to the aggresive manner of LTRS' posts, I tend to agree with your position much more now.

EUA Addict

EUA Addict,

I'm with you on that there are two sides to this story, and they EACH have valid points of view. I *am* aviation labor, yet also an airline consumer. Translation: I work in aviation and buy tickets as a paying pax on the airlines. What I know is that it takes a happy workforce to run a productive airline. Paying people so little that they have no vested interest in the long term health of their company/job is no way to run an airline. I work with a myriad of people who get paid $10 or $11/hr. They could care less if they lost their jobs because they could go get another one paying them the same amount before the sun goes down. I get paid a bit more than that, and *can't* just as easily walk off and find an hourly rate, benefits package, and QOL that meet or exceed what I have now. In other words, if I had to find another job by the end of the week, I would be looking at pay cuts and would be worse off than I am now. So, I have a vested interest so to speak in holding on to the job I have now. Because the guys I work with get paid less than I do, does that mean I'm overpaid? Maybe, but it's 1) what I negotiated (I'm non-union) and 2) it all depends on what kind of worker you want.

As far as LTRS goes, 90% of the content of his posts were unobjectionable by FT TOS standards. I happen to agree with most of it. Yes, I think a few posters tried to trap and bait him and succeeded. I submit your assessment of the situation as proof... you thought most people were attacking his points of view, and not the manner in which he expressed it. Well, it was only within the last few posts of getting suspended where he got hostile. IIRC, he's been posting all weekend and getting attacked for his views. In fact, I had to follow a link to the post that got him suspended before I understood what he did that got him in that boat.

This is my first post to FT. I am not a big FF'er, but I live in the Detroit area, and when I do fly, it's usually on NW. I also have a lot of friends and neighbors who are connected to NW to some extent. I have been reading this board quite a bit due to the strike activity.

Strikes seem to bring about the worst behaviour in almost everyone.

That seems to include a lot of people here!

I think bnrdad is right - there is no place for hostility here - let's leave that on the picket lines! The guy who got suspended desreved it , IMO. He was abusive and hateful, as was pointed out. Regarding his being "baited" - look at how he was baiting everyone else - and how he fell into his own trap!

I personally don't beleive anyone is responsible for the words you type other than yourself. We all have the ability use common sense and excercise self-control. If you're not smart enough to stay out of getting baited and trapped, than you shouldn't be playing the game. Thanks goodness this guy doesn't work at a post office...no offence to those who do. He has noone to blame but himself for shooting himself in the foot. Let's don't blame others for people's own choice of words and poor judgement, ok?

Hopefully we can resume talking about the implications of the strike on the flying public and the employees of NW. And leave the Bush and Kerry ( or Clinton) bashing on the sidelines. Opinions are great, but if you want to get personal and call someone an "ahole", as LTRS did, then send them an email and keep the trashy behaviour between the two of you, and the rest of us out it!.

Seeing both sides
 

No, you are not alone. You may be stuck in the middle here, but that does not mean that you have a greater understanding of the issues, than those that have a strong opinion. I don't think that it is fair to assume, that someone, on one side or the other, did not consider the other side's arguments.

Let me be the first to say "Welcome to Flyertalk"

Aah, 200+ posts and my first opportunity :)

The trolls have fallen silent.

The number of strike-related posts is greatly diminished.

Planes are still flying.

Newspaper coverage is now focused on the permanence of the replacements and what unions will be asked to bleed next.

Doug has all but won this set -- advantage NW.