I'm moving to New York July 1. Really excited about life in the big city, especially after suburban san diego for 4 years. Spouse is starting residency at New York Presbyterian Hospital. They are offering housing at prices ranging from $1600 for a low-floor 600 sf. 1 bedroom to $1750 for a top floor 650 s.f. 1 bedroom in the Helmsley Medical Tower (34 story) located at York at 70th St. Building has doorman Her work is divided 50/50 between adjacent Hospital and Cornell/Columbia Hospital at 168th St. They have a free shuttle bus connecting the two every 30 minutes.

I'll be studying/working as a grad student/TA at Columbia 4 days per week at their main campus.

1. Question: Is the apartment they offer the best option given market rates? I know NYC is expensive, and I'm not sure how "subsidized" these apartments are given the location and alternatives. Could we expect to find anything cheaper around 168th that is still in a decent neighborhood? Her salary is minimal and my stipend even less.

Additionally, I will be going to Linden, NJ airport twice per week (flight instructor job - I want to keep my skills current). I looked at all the public transportation options, and it seems expensive and time consuming: 2 subways to get to Penn Station, NJ transit train to Linden, cab to airport for a total of $32 round trip and more than 2 hours each way in transit. She is on a waiting list for on-site parking - $217 per month (deducted pre-tax) for 24/7 access, but it may take 6-12 months to clear. We have an old but reliable car (market value maybe $2000) that has combined insurance and registration of only $300 per year here in California. We'll be driving a rental truck, and the additional cost to tow the car is about $250.

2. Does anyone have experience with what the street parking situation like in that vicinity? Would it be stupid to try to move it around for alternate side parking restrictions for 6-12 months? I looked at monthly parking garages in the area, and all are over $450/mo. Could you suggest any area that I could find parking (street or paylot) and take the subway to access easily - Harlem, Queens, Bronx?

3. Assuming parking in the long term for ~$217, would something like Zipcar make more sense? I assume we would use the car once per week for shopping/hiking/etc., and I'd be using it twice a week to go to Linden.

4. How long can we get away with keeping California plates? I remember that my parents kept their PA licenses and registration for 4 years when we moved to California - only when my mom got a speeding ticket were they forced to switch over. I'm guessing switching insurance (even liability only) to a NYC address would change the economics equation significantly.

Thanks for the advice - FT is always the most relevant source of information.

Lots of questions, let me start the debate.

First, please note that although the corporate merger created "New York Presbyterian," the EAST side campus is usually called Cornell/New York Hospital while the WEST side one is called Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center.

1. The Helmsley building is relatively new and looks nice from the outside. (I've never been inside.) I suspect the rents are good. If you would like to compare, walk two blocks to the northwest corner of 72nd and York and check out the apartment building there which is owned by Glenwood. (I used to have a friend who lived there and he paid MUCH more rent.)

Consider also the value of living right at your work location, especially if you work resident's hours.

I would imagine that the rent near Columbia Presbyterian is much cheaper, but:

Have you inquired of Columbia if you can get any housing at the Morningside Campus?

It is a safe bet that your automobile insurance will be higher here than where you currently live. If your current carrier is a "national" company (e.g. State Farm, Allstate, etc.) that is licensed to do business in New York, it MIGHT be better for you to transfer your coverage to your New York address. It's Saturday night so I can't check this immediately, but in the past, some insurance carriers would classify new residents as new drivers (regardless of how long they had been driving previously) which resulted in a higher premium.

2. There is alternate side of the street parking in most of the streets north of East 72nd street (unless this has changed recently). Some people live for years with the system, but are you willing to put up with all the stress? On the days when a side of the street is supposed the be cleaned, these spaces generally become illegal at 7:00 A.M. which could be a real pain in the neck. Also, illegally parked vehicles may be towed from any part of the City.

Would it be easier for you to instruct at TEB or FRG?

Here is a New York City-owned parking facility that charges $250 a month. http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/mot.../manpk-02.html I personally don't consider it very close to Cornell.

3. I'm not sure.

4. From the New York State Department of Motor Vehicles web site:

"If you become a resident of NYS, you must apply for a NYS driver license not more than 30 days after you become a NYS resident."

http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/license.htm#driversmoving

Lots of luck to you and your wife. What fields are you in, if you don't mind my asking?

I would agree with almost all that Landing Gear has said with the following exceptions:

I think rents you stated in that area (70th and York) are very low.

with regard to NYS dept Motor veh,, you MAY be in luck as you are a student.

http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/resident.htm

That is the only exception I know of to avoid changing lic and reg.

I also think it is a good idea to check into Republic airport as LIRR is very close and if you are driving it is much easier to get to from 70th and York

NYTANGO, we have no disagreement regarding the rent. I believe the amount quoted by the hospital is a good deal.

Regarding the license and registration, I'm afraid that the link posted is actually steering OP and Mrs. OP in the wrong direction for a few reasons.

First of all, the DMV's website does waffle on the student question by stating "According to this law, students from other states or from other nations who attend school in NYS are normally not considered residents of NYS." [my emphasis]

I actually took the trouble to look up the section of the Vehicle and Traffic Law cited by the DMV on Westlaw §250 (5) and the problem is that OP's wife (Dr. OP) is not a student.

But, let's cut to the chase.

What OP is really interested in, I presume, is saving money on insurance. There are several problems with this plan. First, each and every time you pay an automobile insurance premium, the bill has language to the effect that the bill is based on the information set forth. The applicable piece of information for this discussion is the place where the automobile is "principally garaged."

Assuming for discussion purposes that someone lives in a low insurance rate area of California, moves to New York and has his bills forwarded, each and every time he pays such a bill (or violates his agreement to notify the company of a change in the location where the automobile is principally garaged), he commits the crimes of insurance fraud and larceny, to cite just two.

Here's how this works in the real world. Our hypothetical driver has moved to New York and gets into an accident. The insurance company will start asking questions, the first one of which will be for an explanation of why the vehicle was more than 2,000 miles away from the registered location. The next questions will concern what the insured was doing in the location where the accident occurred. Insurance investigators are usually not idiots and will likely raise further annoying little questions like "where do you work?" and "what do you do for a living."

In short, if they catch you, they deny your coverage. If you disagree, then you can sue the company. (The last time someone came to me with this question was two months ago.)

My advice is that if, anyone like OP intends to come here for one year or more (a typical hospital residency), live here and be employed here, then if you want to try and claim that you are not a resident of the State of New York, you are taking a big risk.

If you do not notify your insurance company you have moved the car here (whether or not you change the license plates or your driver's license), you are playing with fire.

Needless to say, I think this would be a big mistake.

I didn't mean to argue this with you as I agree with your advice including the drivers license information.. It probably is a good idea to change lic and reg and insurance info... (NYC might not even be more expensive than California, which is not generally know as low cost state) I stressed that MAY not need to change lic.and reg.

THis from is from NYU to their students regarding NY residency:
http://www.nyu.edu/osl/oiss/beyond/n...g/license.html

I also feel that while OP certainly qualifies as a student, wife also may be a student being in a residency program and changing documents to NY is not necessary. Insurance coverage is another question.

Real problem is that owning a car in Manhattan is very expensive and , not just from insurance standards and complicated if you do not have access to inexpensive parking. If expenses are an issue as indicated most likely giving up the car is the best advice. They might even enjoy Manhattan more without the stress of owning one. Alternate side in area of 70 and York is awful and tricky. Unless you have plenty of time to sit around waiting which i doubt a resident and op will have, just a few tickets and risk of towing will make the debate moot.

The only issue seems to be OP's flight training and how to get to it without great expense and time, here I agree that he should look into alternative airports.

The hospital apartment is definitely subsidized. I highly doubt you will find a market-rate 1BR in a doorman building south of 96th Street for less than $2000/mo, and it can be difficult to find one for less than $3000/mo in a building/area you actually like. That said, it can be annoying to get between 70th/York and Columbia's Morningside campus, since you'll have to take both a crosstown bus and a subway (or two buses).

While there are some pretty questionable areas in Washington Heights near the 168th St campus, there are also some decent areas (even some really nice areas along Ft. Washington Ave), and it's much easier to get from there to the Morningside campus than from 70th/York, since it's just a subway ride (no crosstown bus). You may be able to find market-rate housing up there that's roughly the same price as the subsidized housing at 70th/York.

If you have time, I'd say it's worth beating the pavement up in Washington Heights before you commit to 70th/York to see if you can find something acceptable up there. If not, however, 70th/York is a perfectly decent area, the commute isn't that bad, and the price will be very hard to beat.

As for getting to Linden, Zipcar isn't cheap, but if you're only out at Linden for a couple hours, it may make sense for you. It's $50/year + $10-12/hour on weekdays. Plus you'll pay tolls of ~$2 each way for the Turnpike + $6 for the bridge/tunnel back into Manhattan (leaving Manhattan is free). Gas and insurance are included. That's more expensive than public transit, but I'm pretty sure it's going to be cheaper than keeping your own car in the city--unless you're staying out at Linden for several hours at a time. Driving will probably cut an hour off your journey compared to public transit, as long as traffic isn't too bad. You may still want to consider public transit, however, as the trains are generally much more reliable than tunnel and Turnpike traffic, and you might be able to get some work done on the trains.

Zipcar is not that useful for shopping, as you can walk or take public transport to almost everything in Manhattan, and parking often costs more than a taxi if you can't carry everything home. Most Manhattanites live perfectly happily without a car. If you're serious hikers a car can be useful, but there are also good guides available for hiking directly from MetroNorth train stations without a car. See, for example, http://www.mta.info/mnr/html/getaway...d_gohiking.htm

1. $1750 for 1 bedroom on Upper East Side is very reasonable. Since you don't know what neighborhood you'll end up loving,I'd say take it, live there for a year and move. I live on UES now, and always prefer this area than the west side (well, other than the 4/5/6 line). You can take the bus cross town to get to Columbia.

2. Car is a REAL pain. Don't even think about street parking in the long run. When I first moved here (lived on the 70s/ Lex), I would get a ticket every other week, even though I was on time moving my car. I eventually realized that the tix nazi was there much earlier to tix cars, esp those with out of state license plates. They will have all sorts of excuses to ticket me. Plus, I wasted way too much time looking for space. So, unless you can afford parking garage, don't have a car. I would also suggest parking the car above 96th street. Cheaper, but still $300. Or park in NJ, by the Path train station. But I think insurance and gas will kill your budget. I got rid of my car after 4 months. Now I'm happy, car free for 10 years.

3. Not sure about zip car, don't think they're cheap. You don't need a car for shopping IMHO. There are plenty of cheap grocery stores around. If you can find public transportation to Linden, then get rid of your car. Rent or taking cabs on a needed basis will be much cheaper. I know people who take buses in from NJ, so it may be do-able.

4. I got away with it for 4 months. I know people who continue with out-of-state plate and registration to keep their insurance low. But that may be risky.

Good luck and welcome to the neighborhood. PM me if you have questions.

This is usually expressed by New Yorkers as:

op said they provide a shuttle bus between the two hospitals.. so there is no problem with bus and subway.. I can't see how he can get a better deal on an apartment and you cant compare upper upper westside and 70th and York.

On the issue of the car, it's gonna be far cheaper to rent one when you need one rather than keeping one in the city. Spend some time getting your bearings, and then decide if you want/can afford to have a car here.

There's a shuttle to take his wife between the two hospitals, but not to take him between the east side and Columbia's Morningside Heights campus (which is 50 blocks from the hospital in Washington Heights where the shuttle goes).

For his wife, living at 70th/York vs. Washington Heights would make no difference, since she'd have to take the shuttle to get from one place to the other anyway. But for him, it would be much easier to get to Columbia's Morningside campus from Washington Heights than from 70th/York. It's not terrible getting there from 70th/York, just a bit more of a pain.

As for other considerations, 70th/York is definitely a nicer neighborhood than the vast majority of Washington Heights and is closer to places the OP might want to go to eat/drink/otherwise have fun. But it's not exactly in the middle of anything. The immediate neighborhood is completely dominated by the hospitals and boring high-rise housing and generic delis serving the hospital community. And the subway is accessible, but not exactly right there, either.

Thank you all very much for the good advice. (Landing Gear - My wife is doing and residency in Emergency Medicine and I'll be continuing study in international relations at columbia, nominally in political science but based at SIPA on 118th and Amsterdam)

Its reassuring to hear that the rent is at least somewhat below market. Honestly we don't care about a doorman or a highrise - but it is the only option. Its frustrating because Cornell/Columbia's promise of subsidized housing was a big draw, but they have raised rents to new residents by $250-$300 since she interviewed at the program in December. The good thing is that rent increases are limited to COLA for the length of her 4-year program. Also, it seems some portion of the rent (and ironically 100% of parking fees) is deducted from payroll pre-tax based on some complicated formula.

With the assurance that the we are unlikely to do much better with market-rate apartments, we won't look for other options. The 70th and York location seems to be convenient to the FDR pedestrian and cycling paths, which will be nice for a daily jog and occasional bike ride with minimal staging time.

I understand having a car would be a pain, and based on feedback will eliminate the street parking option. Brining a car with us is somewhat of a fleeting opportunity: we are renting a truck to transport our things can be cheaply transported (Its and extra $125 for the auto dolly and I guessed another $175 in gas for the truck to tow). If we decide to bring the car along, I'll follow advice to register and insure in NY. I called Amica and they estimated an increase in insurance of about $100 per year when we move.

The on-site parking option is actually valid not only at the upper east side facility but all Columbia and Cornell healthcare garages. These appear to be mostly at ~70th and 168th street facilities, but there is at least one in morningside heights which may be useful for me when/if we clear the waitlist.

I'll look into the option at Republic airport. I am a low-time instructor that wouldn't be be desireable by a flight training school because of very limited availability. Flying clubs, with one student that flies twice per week, is really the only option. The modest pay compensates only for transportation, but I don't want to give it up (I see it as a no-cost way to stay in the air).

Based on the city garage link Landing Gear had sent out - I saw another city-operated garage in Queens that appears to be $160 a month. It seems like it would be a 15 minute walk to the F line (63rd and Lexington) and another 15 minutes or so to Queens Plaza station. It also seems I could ride a bike during good weather in less time accross the bridge and get some exercise. Here is the link to the garage: Queens Parking

Again, thanks for all of your help.

I can really only comment on the apartment, but $1750 for a 650sqft 1-bed in that location is a bargain. The Glenwood buildings (nice doorman buildings, but nothing super-lux) in the mid-70s through upper 80s on York go for $2600-3000 for a 1-bed. That rent is at least $600 below market.

The only problem with parking the car in Queens will be getting it out of Queens. You have to sit through the Queens tunnel, then again thru Holland / Lincoln tunnel if you're heading to Jersey. I'd say park the car in NJ, and ride the PATH train over. Much cheaper, much faster.