stimatr

Got to have the last word flyrights?

Ken hAAmer

[shove]
Oh no! I hope not. I really like Suzy. You probably would too if you knew her better. So to that end, here's a little song about her:

She works from nine to five
She gets her take home pay
She goes to buy some clothes
To wear another day
She's got a little car
That uses diesel gas
It's got a foreign name
She thinks it gives her class
She doesn't cook too well
She doesn't speak too good
She knows of all the men
Within her neighborhood
She gives them all the eye
And chooses one or two
To buy her little things
And have a rendezvous
She has a rendezvous

She tries to look her best
She tries so hard to smile
She wants them all to see
She's got a touch of style
She wears a slitted dress
That shows a little thigh
And acts so nonchalant
As she goes walking by
She thinks the men are cute
She likes to reel them in
And tries to play it cool
With just a touch of sin
She makes them draw a straw
To see who'll take her out
She likes it dog-eat-dog
And they begin to shout

Suzy won't you come out tonight
Suzy won't you go for a ride
Suzy I got tickets for the best show in town
Won't you come along and sit by my side
Suzy won't you go to the game
Suzy won't you come to the dance
Suzy don't you think that I could come inside
Suzy won't you give me a chance

She's learned to set her goals
She wants an even tan
She doesn't mind her work
She does the best she can
She gives the men a smile
They think she fools around
They want to buy her drinks
She wants to settle down
She likes to play the field
She thinks it's just a game
She knows how much he's worth
Before she knows his name
She doesn't want advice
She thinks she knows it all
She thinks it's rather nice
When they begin to call

Suzy won't you come out tonight
Suzy won't you go for a ride
Suzy I got tickets for the best show in town
Won't you come along and sit by my side
Suzy won't you go to the game
Suzy won't you come to the dance
Suzy don't you think that I could come inside
Suzy won't you give me a chance

She thinks she needs that walk
She wears her dresses tight
She wished she had the nerve
To be alone at night
She's got her mind made up
She's found the only way
She hates the pressure but
She likes to hear them say

Suzy won't you come out tonight
Suzy won't you go for a ride
Suzy I got tickets for the best show in town
Won't you come along and sit by my side
Suzy won't you go to the game
Suzy won't you come to the dance
Suzy don't you think that I could come inside
Suzy won't you give me a chance


From The Inessential Uncle Bonsai.
[/shove]

[This message has been edited by Ken hAAmer (edited 07-24-2002).]

BahrainLad

Ummm...strip clubs, well I prefer to do the real thing rather than watch if you know what I mean....but each to his own. Ditto porno (apart from the web)...and I hardly think that the presence of Gay Pride defines a liberal society....what happens when the percentage of gay men as a whole of the population is much lower than in the US?

There is one Jewish Synagogue and several Christian/Catholic churches - including a Cathedral.

In the cabinet there is a woman, a Jew and a Christian.

Migrant workers are treated with the same rights as normal citizens. They also earn on average 10x what they would earn in their own countries.

Oh, crime is officially zero and the only tax we pay is a US$9 departure fee at the airport. And petrol is 25 cents/litre.


But back to the thread....as the moderators are exhorting us to stay focussed, I think what it comes down to is this:

1 Thread title: Misleading. It is well publiscised that "OK" does indeed not mean confirmed by all airlines: see your ticket wallet.

2 Actual Argument: Spurious. When everything falls apart, you will be treated better depending on: 1, how much you paid for your ticket and 2, your status with the airline's frequent flier program. In the same way that on an overbooked flight, the premium passengers will get available seats first. Airlines only have an obligation to get you from A to B safely - which they did in this case. The timing is only conversation.

If you don't like it, I suggest you don't fly BA again. But your list of 'flyrights-approved' airlines will dwindle by the day: eventually you'll have to swim!

flyrights

Bahrainlad,
Airlines give you choices, just as you claim you have choice in "liberal" Bahrain. Yeah, I agree, I'd rather do "the real thing", than go to a strip club, but I'D LIKE THE CHOICE...a CHOICE TO MAKE MYSELF...Just like I can make a choice if I want a cheap ticket, or if I want a wider seat, a more expensive ticket. The more expensive ticket DOESN'T come with more UNDISCLOSED RIGHTS.
See, it's about making INFORMED choices. If I want to go to a strip club, I'll know to avoid "liberal" Bahrain... I SHOULD be able to buy an airline ticket, and know what I am buying, including knowing what the "pecking order" is for unusual situations.
What you're saying/doing is rather hypocritical... When it's convenient for you, you claim you want airlines to be able to do what they want, and not have to disclose things, YET you have no problem with the Bahrain government telling you you can't go to a strip club there... Don't you think it's better to make your OWN choices ALL the time? I've never been to a strip club, but I'm awfully glad I live in a society where free people can be free and do what they like, when it doesn't hurt anyone. Also, gay rights is a pretty good barometer of how free a society is.
Back to the airlines:
Would you trust a Bahrain Court to determine an issue like discrimination? It could be an airline discriminating, or it could be another kind of discrimination... Quite frankly, I wouldn't trust a court in a country that didn't have strip clubs.

The rest of your defensive comments about "liberal" Bahrain, no response is really necessary.
Jim

Doppy

Well, since flyrights has effectively taken this thread so far off topic that it doesn't even make sense to read anymore, here's my last word:

If you don't like what the commercial airlines are doing, don't fly them. The beauty of the society we live in, not the 100% government regulated one flyrights is pushing for, is that if you don't like the way one company does business, you can take your business elsewhere.

Thank you and good night.

d

zvezda

I'm not aware of any airlines having published their boarding priority lists on their websites, but they're hardly well-kept secrets. I've seen UA's any number of times. There are ten catagories (BP1 to BP10) many of which have subcatagories (perhaps 30 in all). From memory, confirmed revenue passengers are included in BP1 (in the case of higher fares) along with Air Marshalls, dead-heading pilots, UA board members and officers, etc. and BP2 (in the case of lower fares). BP3 includes UA employees travelling on company business. BP4 is little used. BP5 is revenue passengers travelling standby. BP6 is UA employees who either paid for discounted tickets or are travelling for a personal emergency. BP7 includes UA retired employees travelling on their passes. BP8 is employees and companions travelling on their passes. BP9 is United Express employees travelling on their passes. BP10 is other airlines' employees travelling on their passes. All this is a severe simplification which shouldn't be relied upon for making travel decisions -- it's just an illustration.

Fortunately, bussinesses are allowed to make rules up as they go along. Perhaps (once or twice) you've seen the words "Subject to change without notice."

Read the Conditions of Carriage.

Why not? Read the Conditions of Carriage, which are published and you do have a right to (by law). All the ticket obligates the airline to do for you is get you there whenever it is convenient for the airline to do so. Since they have already informed you of that, why should they be obliged to disclose their boarding priorities?

I believe you. The last ticket I bought (which is typical) cost about 16000LTL (about 4500USD). I pay such fares because I have a low tolerance for hassles.

They certainly _should_ be able to. In the States at least, the 1st Amendment guarantees Freedom of Association. That means private businesses are free to do business with whomever they choose. Perhaps you've seen the sign "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."

I agree that it would be nice if airlines were to publish their boarding priorities. However, we have no right to force it upon them. If we don't like that an airline hasn't disclosed it, we can write them to inform them that we will take our business elsewhere.

flyrights

Airlines that are subsidized with public money, (either direct handouts, or using public airports that are funded with public money, etc.), MUST treat people equally... they don't have the right to discriminate against people by not disclosing pecking orders. I believe one could easily claim "Equal protection under the law".

During this thread, there has been LOTS of talk of things like, "oh, I've seen the pecking order on American", and "sure, I know at one point I heard about United's pecking order", but NO ONE has pasted WRITTEN pecking order rules from any airline...because they don't exist in writing, (and certainly not in writing for public reading). The words "subject to change without notice" never would hold up in a court of law. I'm told companies often put that down, because they think they are now COVERED in EVERY SITUATION, but I know of not instance where that has held up in any legitimate court. I admit it might hold up in a place like Bahrain...

In case the moderator moves this over to OMNI, as threatened, please remember the original posting of this topic, which was about people with different types of tickets/classes, get DIFFERENT UNDISCLOSED rights in irregular operations situations, and people have a right to know what rights come with each kind of ticket, in writing, and in advance of buying the ticket.

Naturally, on a discussion board of TYPICAL flyers, that is economy people on discount tickets, I'm confident the vast majority of flyers would agree that they are entitled to EQUAL RIGHTS, (the right to know what they are buying). It's a fairly simply concept. I'm not surprised people here don't agree with that, since you're out for your own selfish interests, which include wanting priority in irregular situations, based on how many past tickets you have have bought from the airline. This is wrong and has nothing to do with who should get priority in an irregular situation.
I close by saying that I regret that I singled out British Airways, since I believe this problem is universal to all airlines.
Jim

obiwan

"You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

Randy Petersen

If you look at the progression of this thread - you will notice that there are certain individuals who took it upon themselves to stray off topic. If you liked this thread to begin with, please let them know your personal displeasure at them since it was their comments that has caused this particular thread to end up in Misposted Threads. I'm not sure where it belongs since the curve of replies is no longer a miles and points majority. Once figured out, we'll re-direct, but until then....