Wow, US lawyers flog off their miles on eBay?

In this country if they got a whiff of that you'd likely lose your license to practice for a time, or at minimum get the book thrown at you for acting in a manner ... etc

I'd be less worried about AA, and more about the Bar Association.

This thread piqued my curiosity so I went on eBay to check on VIPOWs. Interestingly, all the sellers are brand-new or ones who have changed their handles and have no history under their new handles. The one exception (a seller WITH history) has closed the auction prematurely despite 4 days remaining on the original timeframe. There definitely seems to be a crackdown afoot!

------------------
Vasant

In the U.S. lawyers are not generally disciplined just for themselves being involved in private civil disputes or lawsuits.

It's a different story if it involves actual illegal criminal actions.

Violating frequent traveler program rules by selling your points is not a crime, but a civil contract dispute, AFAIK.

There must not be very many working lawyers down under, if this is the case there.

Good.

As an aside, there seems to be a ton of fraudulent activity on eBay lately. Just this week, two auctions I was bidding on, for an extremely high-end espresso machine, were terminated early by eBay security. In each case, I had contacted the seller (two different sellers who I'm pretty sure were the same person-- selling very similar units) and the seller(s) responded, very unprofessionally and imploring me to use Western Union (which you should never do with an unknown party) to immediately pay them and they would end the auction early. One seller provided an address in Manhattan which doesn't exist the other was so spooky and evasive that I e-mailed eBay about them-- and eBay e-mailed my simultaneously (our e-mails "crossed in the mail".)

In one case the person was new, with no feedback (which is why I contacted them.) In the other the person had a nice amount of positive feedback-- but all as a buyer, all for postcards and the like at about $3- $5 a piece. Building up a little "credit" as it were. This was his first sale and the item would go for close to $1500 or so.

I personally have never had a bad eBay experience but lately I hear some real horror stories.

4102003
Thanks for posting your story, warning.
This is one of a few topics that belongs into MilesBuzz.
Contrary to some others on this board, I think your story is true.
Actually, I would never sell, do anything what might be "unlawful". And it appears to me, that you are generally acting in the same manner. That's why the agents from AA are "nice and friendly" to you. I have a feeling, that this whole episode will have a "happy ending" for you ...

[This message has been edited by USAFAN (edited 04-11-2003).]

I tend to agree.

Thanks for your confession and lession, perhaps learned.

As to some of the comments made by others....

6-12 months ago, I probably would have responded with something to the effect of "You shouldn't sell AA miles on eBay - it's a violation of their terms, it hurts other FF'ers, blahblahblah." After my more recent dealings with the airlines (see my other recent MilesBuzz post if you want details), my attitude has changed.

The airlines are exploiting every possible bogus fee and rule in the mileage programs to jam up the customer as hard as possible. Why? "The airline industry has changed" is the response I get from AA.

Although I've never sold miles on eBay, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to sell them via an outlet where I wouldn't get caught. (That "outlet" would mainly be finding an acquiantance who needs a last-minute ticket. Somebody I know isn't a narc.) My attitude used to be "The airline is my partner, so I don't want to abuse their system." Now it's simply "They think of ME as their enemy, so I want to extract maximum value as long as I don't break the law or get caught by their internal Gestapo."

The reality is that I'll probably never sell miles because I'm too conservative. But I promise never to show up here lecturing to people who do it - like I probably did in the past.

4-10: It's pretty obvious you are a long-term FT'er. I'd use a different handle, too. I am not sure why so many people think you concocted this whole story for sh*ts and giggles. I'm sorry to hear that you got busted...

Fun topic, I don't ever recall such details disclosed before.
I'll second pinniped : as airlines possess and exercise the right to alter the rules, we have an equal right to circumvent 'em.

I believe the story by 41*, but he got caught and thus is overly emotional. I'm yet to sell any miles, but I reserve this choice to myself only, not to "enforcers".

Let's learn some lessons:
-- private sale is preferable to broker or Ebay
-- sale within the same locality is preferable
-- lesser award amounts are less visible
-- don't risk more than you can afford to lose, i.e. - don't sell from your UA 1P account, sell 25K out of your 26K DL blue account

And, if worst comes worst - you don't have to came begging back to them, it's not the same as banned fr0m securities industry for life. Take your loss like a real trader - with a straight face. And if you really have to be a member - add/drop the middle initial, use a different address and simply create a new account. Hint - I have my first name wrong with one major airline, I tried for a few years to fix it, then gave up.

Silly question -- How do you get miles with your account if the FF account name is not correct? Lately it seems that the reservation name must match the FF account name and those must match your ID?

so this goes for club passes and upgrades as well right?

Simple - every time I book anything I have to spell my first name "because it is missplelled" - and then they issue whatever.
For the first few years I kept asking them to fix name in my account, but after a while I gave up

If this tale is true, I have my doubts, it just shows why the majors are circling the bankruptcy bowl.

Here's a tip to the airline special ops people who troll E-bay, polish up your resume because bankrupt airlines don't need private dicks lurking in the bushes.

How about a concerted effort to improve customer service instead of running stings!

I think the algorithm for catching sellers is more sophisticated than this. (As Randy suggests in the earlier part of his post, which I accidentally deleted.)

I regularly give trips/upgrades using miles to family and a few friends on both UA and AA. If I share the same last name I can do it over the phone. If I don't have the same last name I have to sign a piece of paper at a ticket counter. (Which, usually the agent is befuddled about and tells me is just going to go into the trash anyway. But, they still want that signature!) I've never had any problem doing this and (as far as I know) none of my friends/family have ever been put under suspicion for buying mileage tickets/upgrades.

Maybe the programs are smart enough to see the pattern that I'm giving away to several people with the same last name regularly, and assume that the people with a different last name are legit too?
Who knows?

I hope it continues to be as easy to give awards to people.

-BP

p.s. I've never sold/bartered/etc an award and never will. It's too much fun to upgrade a cousin without telling them or fly my Uncle cross-country for a quick weekend family reunion.

I am somewhat amazed at how some people advocate abiding by the rules and regulations of airlines while apparently condoning breaching ToS of FT.

AFAIK, it is against FT ToS to have multiple handles and yet no one has said this to the original poster while the wide consensus seems to be that s/he is another handle of a long time FTer.