Interesting story but I remain skeptical. I agree with the poster who noted "Interesting first post especially the contrite last line."

On the subject of airline employees, I find it ironic that these employees have the gall to ask for us to be concerned for their interests when they so infrequently are concerned about our interests. Apparently those of you with status often get better service than me, as they say YMMV, or as they say at DL, SGB.

I also find it ironic that someone would add their thoughts and comments on a MESSAGE BOARD and then tell others to keep their thoughts and comments to themselves.

On the subject of eBay and FF programs, I don't agree with the airlines' restrictions on transfer because it and other subtle restrictions amount to a bait and switch IMHO--they tout the value of the miles which in most cases is an illusion. On the other hand, under our economic system businesses should be able to place reasonable restrictions on such items, so I fully support their right to restrict the awards and to enforce their own rules. I just don't like their rules.

I've never checked ebay for these sorts of things because I never trusted the average ebay seller to refund my money if the thing went bust, and as far as selling I always doubted that someone would give you fair value in light of the risks involved.

I didn't mean to imply that anyone should keep his thoughts or his opinions to himself (or herself.) Just asked not to be insulting about it.

I do note that 4102003 credits letiole with an insightful post .. a post that includes And while 4102003 denies lots of speculation There is no denial of being a long-time member using another handle.

Gary

FWIW AA harassed me and my buyers when i sold Kellogg's coupons on Ebay - then a few days later came 9-11 and they had other security issues on their minds.

IMHO AA is nearly as militant as DL on this and other "RPU" issues - the lady who emailed me apparently had policing ebay auctions as her principal job function.

I got smart and started running private auctions - sounds like they got smart too and started posing as buyers to "sting" sellers.

Guess the next step is anonymous email for sellers, then the next step is they start making actual purchases to catch the seller....

Um no, the the lesson would be: Don't do it....

Whether or not this person is fake or real isn't really up to us to discuss...

I haven't ruled out the possibility of the buyer being affiliated with the airline. I was locked-out of my account almost immediately (3-4 hours) after requesting the ticket be issued. My belief is that someone at AA was waiting in the wings for me to complete the transaction (I wish I had been first hassled by the airline--again, not a complaint, simply a regretful wish.) Also, to clarify my first post, when I spoke with the security rep, she said a message had been left for the buyer informing her the ticket was no good and that AA was holding the itinerary open in case the buyer had sufficient miles to obtain the ticket or wanted to purchase it. The 15,000 mile penalty has not been deducted yet. The rep did say that because of the way I handled it, they would consider not doing so.

[This message has been edited by 4102003 (edited 04-11-2003).]

This poster is an imposter, as told by UA & AA security " Its impossible to track who buy and sells, swu, vipos, and miles, etc,
The general rule is its caught at the airport when the buyer says something really stupid.
Otherwise according US Law, it might be a breach of agreement at most between the flyer and the airline.

Have you thought about suing the airline? Many people believe they have no right ro prevent you from sellng miles or to arbitrarily steal miles from your account because of perceived wrongdoing.

QL

AA absolutely can and has closed accounts for ebay activity-- it's happened to many people, including some FTers. Your "general rule" is complete nonsense.

[This message has been edited by JonNYC (edited 04-11-2003).]

mlibers - I think that programs do have ways to determine the buying and selling of miles other than stupidity of the buyer. I've met many directors of fraud for various frequent flyer programs though the years and they have become very asept at these issues and really can tell who buys and sells miles.

Clue: they sue coupon brokers and acquire the list of customers either registered to sell or who have sold miles in the past.
Clue: Almost 100% of the time a name transfer on an award is a flag. If the ticketing of the name transfer is outside of your residency (and almost all of buyng and selling miles are) another flag goes up. Non-domestic award name change for award redemption, another flag goes up.

The list goes on and on and it's not about the buyer being stupid. And yes, various programs do pose as 'buyers' on eBay and elsewhere.

I haven't considered suing the airline. I am a lawyer and it's simply not worth the trouble even if the position taken by others were proven to be a valid one. I'm feeling lucky to still have a frequent flyer account.

[This message has been edited by 4102003 (edited 04-11-2003).]

FWIW, I spoke with the security representative again. I thanked her for restoring my account. I also said, I hope I don't offend, but I am concerned that AA may have e-mailed me under false pretenses in violation of eBay's rules. She (who BTW, has been very polite and professional) said very emphatically that AA does not pose as either buyers or sellers. Instead, they have an agreement with eBay for access to information and monitor "everything which has to do with AA on eBay." I also asked about whether the buyer might just be able to keep the ticket now that the money has been refunded. She said, "No, but I'm working something out with them." So, that's my story, believe it or not.

And if you steal something and are caught, is the lesson "be more creative"???

Honestly I do not think it is worth the trouble to sell the miles, not to mention it being against the program rules that you agree to by becoming a member of the program. And besides, I would rather use them for my own trips.

I was caught buying an award ticket on UA about six years ago (first class award to Asia).

Purchased through a broker. I had no direct contact with UA. Showed up at the airport and hadn't said anything to the agent, but was told that the supervisor had my boarding pass. Uh, oh.

Supervisor showed up, asked to see my entire ticket, told me it had been purchased, and confiscated it. There was no discussion. It was not an effort to see if they were right. The decision had already been made.

I was given one choice: walk away or come clean and they would sell me a ticket and give me a free one-class of service upgrade, round-trip. I came clean and was put on the phone on the spot with a UA employee in their security department. It was clear they were really after the broker. I was collateral damage.

The broker later said they didn't know how it happened and put me in touch with the 1K who had sold the miles to the broker. He wasn't happy either. United "fined" him another 120,000 miles for selling an award and told him they would close his account if they caught him again.

I still don't know how UA figured it out. Likely something the broker said or did. I could complain about it, but I knew I was violating UA's rules and I had probably bought a dozen or so in the preceeding years. Haven't done it since.

I've been a 1K every year since, so it worked out for UA in the long run.

It was a few years ago, but don't think the airlines are always looking the other way and don't care.

I'm not a preacher and am not saying don't do it, but be very careful...

I'm a little skeptical of that account, Always Flyin. Are you sure you didn't make up 1666 posts under that new name, just so you could post here to scare people away from selling miles. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif