I certainly didn't mean to be disparaging, nor to induce you to disclose attorney- client info, which I'm glad to see you didn't, nor to "shoot the messenger."

I'm sure everyone appreciates your research, whether they arrive at the same or opposing conclusions.

In an area of the law that is debatable, it helps to know the perspective or motive of the proponent, in arriving at an independent conclusion, does it not?

Needless to say, I try not to dispute anything well-grounded in fact and law.

See also An offer to sell miles (Only Randy Petersen forum)
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum97/HTML/000871.html

The original poster of this thread warned against selling miles. And others have stated that selling miles has been strictly dealt with by various airlines. What about upgrades, like United's SWUs? Has any Mileage Plus member been penalized for selling upgrades? It seems like there are a lot of Sweet Spots and SWUs on ebay.

There are also alot of Sweet Spots and SWU's being swapped/traded/bartered (or whatever else you choose to call it) at the Coupon Connection.

To the best of my knowledge bartering awards is also against all major airlines' rules, interestingly enough the Coupon Connection says, "This is N-O-T a forum for anything related to the buying, selling or BARTERING of airline awards..." - I capitalized bartering for emphasis.

Nobody seems to want to touch this one with a ten-foot pole.

Well,

I was looking at EBay, and saw one for 35,000 CO miles. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2214684426

When I looked again, it was removed a few hours later.

Draw your own conclusions.

EmailKid

------------------
Then again, what the hell do I know?

Don't use the same/similar email/screen name. If you don't then there is no way they can trace you unless the buyer is an employee snitch.

(And I notice some people trying to sell info found off FT!)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2261457909

Actually the fine folks at Ebay will give out a seller's personal info - at least they will give it to *wood authorities when it comes to a seller selling *wood related items - see post #4 of http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=343564 where user pacman777 says, "I even tried ebaying the SPG50 cert, but somehow, Starwood got my contact information and sent me a CERTIFIED mail threatening they would close my membership account for breaking the terms and conditions of the cert which state it is not to be sold. I'm not sure how they got the info so quickly before my auction ended."

I know for a fact that what pacman says is true as about a year ago someone I know listed (and sold) an SPG50 on ebay. About a week or two later they received a letter from a paralegal at *wood that ended with the following:

"Consequently, we hereby request that you immediately cease and desist from any and all sales of Starwood Preferred Guest 50% Off Awards in your possession or receive in the future. Unless you comply with this request, we may be forced to take appropriate steps to terminate your Preferred Guest privileges and revoke your membershipor take other appropriate legal remedies."

Interestingly enough this seller WAS NOT even an SPG member!

To me the important thing here is that Ebay DEFINITELY gave out a user's info to a party not involved in a transaction, something I think should never ever happen as long as no laws are broken (yes a *wood RULE was broken - but definitely NOT a law). In this case ebay gave *wood the seller's mailing address info as the bad-boy letter from *wood was addressed exactly the same as the seller's ebay registration info - an address that the seller uses ONLY for ebay related business.

I can 100% guarantee you that this is correct. Starwood does hunt on eBay. How do I know? Well, I sold an SPG/50 myself once and got the exact same letter mentioned in the post above. Good times.

I also sold an SPG50 on ebay and received the certified letter.

Why Do You Do It?
 

Since you know it is agains the rules and when you joined you agreed to participate by the rules, why would you consider this type of sale. It's a bit like being invited to a card game and then not playing by the rules.

Whether I like it or not, I think the airlines have a right to make rules about their "club." If you don't like the rules, then don't participate. Participation is voluntary, last I heard. Given the rules, it is very risky to disregard them publicly with strangers. It is far less risky to make a personal, private transaction between family or friends. If a friend or relative asked me for a frequent flyer ticket that was otherwise very expensive, then offerred to compensate me by giving me a gift certificate to my favorite store, I don't think I would lose sleep over this and would consider it if it would help my friend or relative. This hasn't ever happen - have had a few hint at a free ticket. I have no interest in giving them away just because I was asked. I feel my miles aren't free as I have worked very hard for them - even the "free" miles (ones where I didn't have to spend money to get them, - but usually spent time). I do not agree with the idea of suing the airlines over this. I believe the original poster and think his motives were purely to warn people and I am amazed at the level of scepticism. I don't blame him in the least to post this under a pseudonym as he sounded embarrassed at what he did and being caught. I think it was very nice of him to warn people, and I am not sure why people had to be so antagonistic towards him.

I received the SPG50 letter as well.

All of my travel-related sales are now performed through a relative's eBay account who has no frequest flyer/guest affiliations. Whose account are they going to close then?

Why does Ebay even allow the sales then?
 

If it is against airline rules, and if Ebay is giving out info on the sellers, why do they even allow miles to be sold??

Ebay takes the easy way out
 

Partially it's due to that gray area surrounding "illegal" and "against FF program rules". As Ebay says:

"...the seller may play no role in arranging any travel other than delivering the item. Please note that many airline tickets, vouchers, and frequent flier miles are not transferable, and sellers should review any travel related item before listing to make sure that it can be transferred legally to another party and will be accepted by the issuing provider of travel services."

The other part of the answer is the volume that Ebay handles. There is no practical way to review every auction, until someone complains. Again, Ebay says:

"If a listing is ended or removed, it's probably because the item was prohibited, questionable, infringing or potentially illegal as stated in the User Agreement and a specific complaint was reported. Listed items similar to the ones removed will remain on the site unless eBay is notified about them." (emphais added)

Basically, the airlines have to complain about every listing in order to get each one removed. Then, of course, Tino (or any seller) can just relist the item without consequence. That's why the airlines like to wait for the auction to end and burn both the seller (by taking away his accumulated FF miles) and the buyer (by cancelling the ticket purchased). Clearly, the idea isn't to catch everyone, it's to scare people away from these types of transactions.

Personally, I'm one of the folks who say "these are the rules that I agreed to (not selling miles or awards) and just like I expect the airlines to live up to their side of the bargain, I need to live up to mine." I do believe that when an airline increases redemption rates with little notice (say for a RTW ticket), that the person saving for such an award may have an ethical opening for disposing of the miles accumulated toward that reward. That's far different that running up gift card purchases on charge cards for the purpose of selling the miles or awards.