The Future of Frequent Flyer Programs: What Should We Do?
Sep 19, 2003, 9:21 pm
#46
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: eastern Europe & NC
Posts: 4,527
Decent ff and elite programs are what give network carriers appeal over LCC's. eliminating them is like a death wish for the network carriers.
One positive thing we should all be doing is registering complaints with the DOJ over CO's obvious collusion with DL on their ff programs, and asking them to keep a close eye on NW following suit.
AF has a decent elite program, and they have been a lot more profitable in the last few years than the US carriers! Maybe one answer is to join the ff programs of some of the European carriers.
One positive thing we should all be doing is registering complaints with the DOJ over CO's obvious collusion with DL on their ff programs, and asking them to keep a close eye on NW following suit.
AF has a decent elite program, and they have been a lot more profitable in the last few years than the US carriers! Maybe one answer is to join the ff programs of some of the European carriers.
Sep 19, 2003, 10:16 pm
#47
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by PineyBob:
Delta has its Rats, & US has it Cockroaches.</font>
Delta has its Rats, & US has it Cockroaches.</font>
Seriously, Southwest is run by people who are permitted to use their brains and do so regularly. The only thing that doesn't make sense is the amazing generosity of their FF program: I can spend $290 total on 4 round trips and earn an unrestricted free trip worth $300 (or even more if I have an optimal use for it).
Try Southwest. Adjust your expectations of the flight experience itself downward (but not as much as you'd think). It's a bus, but it's a really pleasant one. Kiosks have eliminated most of the queuing.
After you fly them for a while, you will find yourself adjusting your expectations of a FF program and treatment by the staff substantially upward.
Sep 19, 2003, 11:29 pm
#48
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Monterey, California
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I can spend $1200 on United and redeem the miles for a First Class bed seat on a 12 hour international flight in a bed-seat. That is what I call a very generous frequent flyer program and a wonderful benefit of upgrades. I'm not knocking Southwest - I've never flown them.
Dec 19, 2003, 9:39 am
#49
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It has been greater than 9 months since this thread was launched.
Has the landscape of the frequent flyer programs changed since the recent official announcement of changes to the Delta Air Lines SkyMiles program?
Was www.saveskymiles.com instrumental in the decision of Delta Air Lines to make these changes?
Has the landscape of the frequent flyer programs changed since the recent official announcement of changes to the Delta Air Lines SkyMiles program?
Was www.saveskymiles.com instrumental in the decision of Delta Air Lines to make these changes?
Dec 19, 2003, 1:34 pm
#50
Join Date: May 2001
Location: NWA Platinum, PC Platinum, HH Gold, Radisson elite, Hertz #1 Gold; National Emerald, Wausau, WI
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The recent developments are positive for people like us. With Northwest refusing to join the race to the bottom in FF program benefits, Delta has been forced to relent and customer backlash has to be the reason. After delaying implementation of some negative changes to their program, will Continental finally get the picture? Stay tuned.
Nov 18, 2005, 10:00 am
#51
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Well, here we are, greater than two years later.
As a result of this milepost, I thought it would be a good idea to re-visit this thread.
The Delta Air Lines SkyMiles frequent flier program, in many respects, has deteriorated overall in the last two years, although there have been some positive developments in the program. However, when combined with the de-valuation of SkyMiles and the downgrading of the product offered by Delta Air Lines overall, I began to quietly question to myself as to whether or not it is still worth being a frequent flier.
Don’t get me wrong — I still enjoy it, although the entire travel landscape has been more difficult overall to enjoy. However, upon an initial investigation, it seems that other frequent flier programs are not much better than the Delta Air Lines SkyMiles frequent flier program.
What do you think is the future of frequent flier programs and of the travel business as a whole at this point in time?
As a result of this milepost, I thought it would be a good idea to re-visit this thread.
The Delta Air Lines SkyMiles frequent flier program, in many respects, has deteriorated overall in the last two years, although there have been some positive developments in the program. However, when combined with the de-valuation of SkyMiles and the downgrading of the product offered by Delta Air Lines overall, I began to quietly question to myself as to whether or not it is still worth being a frequent flier.
Don’t get me wrong — I still enjoy it, although the entire travel landscape has been more difficult overall to enjoy. However, upon an initial investigation, it seems that other frequent flier programs are not much better than the Delta Air Lines SkyMiles frequent flier program.
What do you think is the future of frequent flier programs and of the travel business as a whole at this point in time?
Nov 18, 2005, 10:24 am
#53
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Canarsie, some brief thoughts:
1. Miles are still a valuable proposition. They just aren't for retirement. Earn and then burn, that way the two are aligned and there isn't a devaluation of miles earned in one period when you attempt to redeem under a new award chart with higher prices.
2. In some ways, they're getting more valuable than ever. Alliances mean greater redemption opportunities. I remember even at the beginning of alliances if I wanted to fly Air New Zealand on a transpac in F United would only fly me in coach to NZ's gateway. I love redeeming AA miles for an award on both TN and QF, and redeeming US miles for an award on both NH and TG (both of which I've done recently).
3. But of course there are challenges. There rae no guarantees with frequent flyer programs. Benefits can and will change at will. The prices of awards will go up. These are very real currencies, but with no independent central bank to keep inflation in check. Hence #1 above, earn and burn in the same period.
4. Not all programs are created equal. Delta is legions behind both AA and UA in my opinion, at least as a general proposition. Now, if you need to spend most of your time on DL metal (in 2-class equipment, anyway) then it makes sense to be with Delta. But their international upgrade policies and sky-high award chart make them generally unattractive, at least to me. Then there are pretty good regional programs like AS... and if all you care about is domestic upgrades, by all means check out NW (or AA if you can become an EXP).
5. Diversification is key. Redeeming on a single carrier or from a single program can be difficult, especially with very full planes. It makes sense to rack up miles in a single program until you have enough to make them useful, but then it pays to diversity. It's wonderful to look for an award and be able to choose to use miles with UA, DL, AA, etc. Building up miles in an account with each alliance can be very helpful.
6. Don't forget hotel programs. Love Starwood's redemption properties, even if I don't like how expensive some of the best properties have become. The Starwood Amex is my choice for credit card accrual. Plus the flexibility to transfer points to so many programs is great -- optionality is key.
1. Miles are still a valuable proposition. They just aren't for retirement. Earn and then burn, that way the two are aligned and there isn't a devaluation of miles earned in one period when you attempt to redeem under a new award chart with higher prices.
2. In some ways, they're getting more valuable than ever. Alliances mean greater redemption opportunities. I remember even at the beginning of alliances if I wanted to fly Air New Zealand on a transpac in F United would only fly me in coach to NZ's gateway. I love redeeming AA miles for an award on both TN and QF, and redeeming US miles for an award on both NH and TG (both of which I've done recently).
3. But of course there are challenges. There rae no guarantees with frequent flyer programs. Benefits can and will change at will. The prices of awards will go up. These are very real currencies, but with no independent central bank to keep inflation in check. Hence #1 above, earn and burn in the same period.
4. Not all programs are created equal. Delta is legions behind both AA and UA in my opinion, at least as a general proposition. Now, if you need to spend most of your time on DL metal (in 2-class equipment, anyway) then it makes sense to be with Delta. But their international upgrade policies and sky-high award chart make them generally unattractive, at least to me. Then there are pretty good regional programs like AS... and if all you care about is domestic upgrades, by all means check out NW (or AA if you can become an EXP).
5. Diversification is key. Redeeming on a single carrier or from a single program can be difficult, especially with very full planes. It makes sense to rack up miles in a single program until you have enough to make them useful, but then it pays to diversity. It's wonderful to look for an award and be able to choose to use miles with UA, DL, AA, etc. Building up miles in an account with each alliance can be very helpful.
6. Don't forget hotel programs. Love Starwood's redemption properties, even if I don't like how expensive some of the best properties have become. The Starwood Amex is my choice for credit card accrual. Plus the flexibility to transfer points to so many programs is great -- optionality is key.
Nov 22, 2005, 6:26 am
#54
Join Date: Jun 2001
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I was thinking of starting a thread titled, "What's life like after elite status is no more?" Subtitled, "I chucked the whole FF thing and lived to tell about it."
Frankly, for a price concious traveller, programs that have only one domestic airline can be very difficult to stick to. I absolutely *love* SkyTeam, because I have FOUR domestic airlines from which I can earn EQM's on. Someday, I think there will be a shakeout and some airlines will merge. After all, if there becomes transparent benefits among DL/NW/CO such as receprical club agreements and reciprical upgrade agreements (we're partially there on both counts), at what point does the color of the airplane's paint matter?
I think FF programs are here to stay, however. There's $$$ to be made in non-airline partner miles, and status *does* keep people within a couple of different airlines -- it does for me, for without it, I would actually fly the carrier with the best fare and schedule to fit my needs, instead of paying a little extra to NW for the upgrade, or spending extra time on airplanes to accrue miles.
Frankly, for a price concious traveller, programs that have only one domestic airline can be very difficult to stick to. I absolutely *love* SkyTeam, because I have FOUR domestic airlines from which I can earn EQM's on. Someday, I think there will be a shakeout and some airlines will merge. After all, if there becomes transparent benefits among DL/NW/CO such as receprical club agreements and reciprical upgrade agreements (we're partially there on both counts), at what point does the color of the airplane's paint matter?
I think FF programs are here to stay, however. There's $$$ to be made in non-airline partner miles, and status *does* keep people within a couple of different airlines -- it does for me, for without it, I would actually fly the carrier with the best fare and schedule to fit my needs, instead of paying a little extra to NW for the upgrade, or spending extra time on airplanes to accrue miles.
Nov 22, 2005, 7:21 am
#55
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The legacy airlines are trying to reconcile four things simultaneously:
1. Using technology to redefine "loyalty" as incremental revenue over the basement fare - United is leading in this area with UGS, $299 annual access to E+, Mr. Chicken offers to upgrade at check-in, etc.
2. Rationalizing fare structures - America West and AirTran are dragging the majors kicking and screaming in this direction, look at the percentage of paid Z fares on routes such as JFK-LAX
3. Tailoring their market to their predominant customer bases even if it annoys some of their higher volume customers in the short run (United is the leader here, with ps/Ted/explus); and
4. Staying afloat.
I agree with DHAST that the FF programs are here to stay. The elite programs, however, are up for serious scrutiny. Delta and US have botched this in past years. United seems to have learned from their lessons and is taking a more incremental and less confrontational approach.
But if the market shakes itself out to the point where I can routinely pick up an $1800 transatlantic ticket in a class that looks like your typical 757 domestic F service with a 50 day advance purchase and capacity controls, then the days of earning elite status for a $299 ticket in row 68 are going to be gone. You'll still get some miles, but that'll be it.
1. Using technology to redefine "loyalty" as incremental revenue over the basement fare - United is leading in this area with UGS, $299 annual access to E+, Mr. Chicken offers to upgrade at check-in, etc.
2. Rationalizing fare structures - America West and AirTran are dragging the majors kicking and screaming in this direction, look at the percentage of paid Z fares on routes such as JFK-LAX
3. Tailoring their market to their predominant customer bases even if it annoys some of their higher volume customers in the short run (United is the leader here, with ps/Ted/explus); and
4. Staying afloat.
I agree with DHAST that the FF programs are here to stay. The elite programs, however, are up for serious scrutiny. Delta and US have botched this in past years. United seems to have learned from their lessons and is taking a more incremental and less confrontational approach.
But if the market shakes itself out to the point where I can routinely pick up an $1800 transatlantic ticket in a class that looks like your typical 757 domestic F service with a 50 day advance purchase and capacity controls, then the days of earning elite status for a $299 ticket in row 68 are going to be gone. You'll still get some miles, but that'll be it.
Nov 22, 2005, 5:39 pm
#56
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: IAD
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Posts: 2,729
Originally Posted by ElmhurstNick
I agree with DHAST that the FF programs are here to stay. The elite programs, however, are up for serious scrutiny. Delta and US have botched this in past years. United seems to have learned from their lessons and is taking a more incremental and less confrontational approach.
But if the market shakes itself out to the point where I can routinely pick up an $1800 transatlantic ticket in a class that looks like your typical 757 domestic F service with a 50 day advance purchase and capacity controls, then the days of earning elite status for a $299 ticket in row 68 are going to be gone. You'll still get some miles, but that'll be it.
Jun 27, 2008, 9:48 am
#57
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With the advent of fuel surcharges, increased taxes, the reduction of services and the elimination of benefits......do you believe that this is true?......and do you believe that this is true as well?
Jun 27, 2008, 10:16 am
#58
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 408
Jun 27, 2008, 12:11 pm
#60
Join Date: Jul 2001
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You didn't even mention the farce that is brought to you by the letters "T", "S" and "A"!