The Future of Frequent Flyer Programs: What Should We Do?
Mar 11, 2003, 12:13 am
#31
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These indeed seem like dark times; I have to remind myself I used to get on FlyerTalk to scan for deals, rather than to vent. Reading of all the changes has been bad for the blood pressure.
Would have to largely agree with those who say that the true incremental cost for these FF programs is low because airlines manage the seats to try to ensure that as few as possible that would have been sold go to awards. And airlines like CO take that one further by being tight on "standard" awards, effectively devaluing the miles 50%.
It's important to keep voting with feet as much as possible (after all, DL can't blame Sept. 11 for empty seats forever).
JetBlue and AirTran and, of course, Southwest continue to stir the pot and pick off leisure travelers. Maybe they'll become viable options for FF-mile accumulation for many people. I suspect that the main things they lack are options for Hawaii and Europe and places like that, but maybe, with partnerships, they could offer something there.
I hope the big airlines can pull through this without too much damage. Some of it is the economy, some of it terrorism fear, and some of it changes to the underlying business model.
Would have to largely agree with those who say that the true incremental cost for these FF programs is low because airlines manage the seats to try to ensure that as few as possible that would have been sold go to awards. And airlines like CO take that one further by being tight on "standard" awards, effectively devaluing the miles 50%.
It's important to keep voting with feet as much as possible (after all, DL can't blame Sept. 11 for empty seats forever).
JetBlue and AirTran and, of course, Southwest continue to stir the pot and pick off leisure travelers. Maybe they'll become viable options for FF-mile accumulation for many people. I suspect that the main things they lack are options for Hawaii and Europe and places like that, but maybe, with partnerships, they could offer something there.
I hope the big airlines can pull through this without too much damage. Some of it is the economy, some of it terrorism fear, and some of it changes to the underlying business model.
Mar 16, 2003, 11:02 am
#32
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Connecticut
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Gaucho100K:
My point is that its makes no sense for frequent flyers that are smart enough to know how to play the system and understand all the rule details, to expect the airlines (many of which are -btw- in financial difficulties) to treat them like true VIP and extend them all the perks.
Furthermore, I strongly disagree when someone insists that fare savvy flyers that buy the lowest possible fares to accrue only mileage and status in ff programs are the BEST
customers, and that airlines should do the best they can to not alienate them. Therein lies the crux of this issue....
Yes, these people may have the highest tier in a given program, but they are basically free-riders (in economic terms) and do not constitute the customer that makes an airline profitable.</font>
My point is that its makes no sense for frequent flyers that are smart enough to know how to play the system and understand all the rule details, to expect the airlines (many of which are -btw- in financial difficulties) to treat them like true VIP and extend them all the perks.
Furthermore, I strongly disagree when someone insists that fare savvy flyers that buy the lowest possible fares to accrue only mileage and status in ff programs are the BEST
customers, and that airlines should do the best they can to not alienate them. Therein lies the crux of this issue.... Yes, these people may have the highest tier in a given program, but they are basically free-riders (in economic terms) and do not constitute the customer that makes an airline profitable.</font>
Your summary explains why the cockroaches-DLrats-UAwhiners etc. are doomed to fail - they don't deserve to win.
(Though I suspect they'll soon to be joined by disenfranchised pseudo-elites of AA when that line hits BK, I suspect. You can almost hear the whimperings now: "What happened to the VIPOWs??!?!? An outrage!!")
Jun 25, 2003, 2:33 pm
#33
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,062
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RustyC:
I have to remind myself I used to get on FlyerTalk to scan for deals, rather than to vent. </font>
I have to remind myself I used to get on FlyerTalk to scan for deals, rather than to vent. </font>
What brought me to this site was the daily wealth of information which could make our flying experiences that much more enjoyable/affordable/possible.
What keeps me at this site? ...well, I dont know.
Perhaps the hope that those days might someday return, even partially. Delta, United, British.... nothing but griping. Sad
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Jun 25, 2003, 4:35 pm
#34
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Find a 12 Step program for FF membership programs. 
Go with the flow. If the programs continue the downward spiral as they appear today then take advantage of perks ASAP. However, if the programs return to prior expectation levels, then reap the benefits. I am to the point of not even caring. I would give up my vaulted status at UAL for the opportunity to stay home and watch my children grow up. I have been UAL 1K for 9 years now and might not make it for 2004. I am also UAL Global Service, which is the top tier status that can only be obtained by invitation from UAL. While the perks are nice, being home as much as I have been this year is infinitely better. I guess I love my family more than the frequent flyer program that I once coveted.
Go with the flow. If the programs continue the downward spiral as they appear today then take advantage of perks ASAP. However, if the programs return to prior expectation levels, then reap the benefits. I am to the point of not even caring. I would give up my vaulted status at UAL for the opportunity to stay home and watch my children grow up. I have been UAL 1K for 9 years now and might not make it for 2004. I am also UAL Global Service, which is the top tier status that can only be obtained by invitation from UAL. While the perks are nice, being home as much as I have been this year is infinitely better. I guess I love my family more than the frequent flyer program that I once coveted.
Jun 25, 2003, 7:03 pm
#35
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 8,222
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RobotDoctor:
Find a 12 Step program for FF membership programs.
Go with the flow. If the programs continue the downward spiral as they appear today then take advantage of perks ASAP. However, if the programs return to prior expectation levels, then reap the benefits. I am to the point of not even caring. I would give up my vaulted status at UAL for the opportunity to stay home and watch my children grow up. I have been UAL 1K for 9 years now and might not make it for 2004. I am also UAL Global Service, which is the top tier status that can only be obtained by invitation from UAL. While the perks are nice, being home as much as I have been this year is infinitely better. I guess I love my family more than the frequent flyer program that I once coveted.</font>
Find a 12 Step program for FF membership programs.
Go with the flow. If the programs continue the downward spiral as they appear today then take advantage of perks ASAP. However, if the programs return to prior expectation levels, then reap the benefits. I am to the point of not even caring. I would give up my vaulted status at UAL for the opportunity to stay home and watch my children grow up. I have been UAL 1K for 9 years now and might not make it for 2004. I am also UAL Global Service, which is the top tier status that can only be obtained by invitation from UAL. While the perks are nice, being home as much as I have been this year is infinitely better. I guess I love my family more than the frequent flyer program that I once coveted.</font>
Jun 26, 2003, 5:36 am
#36
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Anyone who blames the ff programs for the problems that the industry is not thinking straight.The only profitable part of many U.S airlines today is there ff programs and with a further reduction of them people will vote with there feet.Lets remember air canada had a deal to sell a stake in there program to onex and united was rumored to be thinking about the same.
If the airlines believe reducing FF benefits except to full fare pax will increase the number of full F/J/Y tickets sold they are full of themselves.I dobut most companies will allow workers to spend 2x the price in order to get more ff miles or to upgrade.With airlines like FL and B6 expanding routes and in FL's case adding an elite level to there FF program which by the way im told gives Biz class upgrades and waviers of change/cancelation fee's people will vote with there feet.To all the people who cry the LCC's dont go anywhere i can use miles on for vacation well try to get standard award on a certain airline to europe.You will probably end up being told you have to buy a 100k award.Devaluation of miles like this keep bluring the line between the some service carriers and the LCC's
-howie
If the airlines believe reducing FF benefits except to full fare pax will increase the number of full F/J/Y tickets sold they are full of themselves.I dobut most companies will allow workers to spend 2x the price in order to get more ff miles or to upgrade.With airlines like FL and B6 expanding routes and in FL's case adding an elite level to there FF program which by the way im told gives Biz class upgrades and waviers of change/cancelation fee's people will vote with there feet.To all the people who cry the LCC's dont go anywhere i can use miles on for vacation well try to get standard award on a certain airline to europe.You will probably end up being told you have to buy a 100k award.Devaluation of miles like this keep bluring the line between the some service carriers and the LCC's
-howie
Jun 26, 2003, 6:26 am
#37
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by stockmanjr:
To all the people who cry the LCC's dont go anywhere i can use miles on for vacation well try to get standard award on a certain airline to europe. You will probably end up being told you have to buy a 100k award. Devaluation of miles like this keep bluring the line between the some service carriers and the LCC's.
-howie</font>
To all the people who cry the LCC's dont go anywhere i can use miles on for vacation well try to get standard award on a certain airline to europe. You will probably end up being told you have to buy a 100k award. Devaluation of miles like this keep bluring the line between the some service carriers and the LCC's.
-howie</font>
Jun 28, 2003, 2:21 pm
#38
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by stockmanjr:
Anyone who blames the ff programs for the problems that the industry is not thinking straight.The only profitable part of many U.S airlines today is there ff programs and with a further reduction of them people will vote with there feet.</font>
Anyone who blames the ff programs for the problems that the industry is not thinking straight.The only profitable part of many U.S airlines today is there ff programs and with a further reduction of them people will vote with there feet.</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">If the airlines believe reducing FF benefits except to full fare pax will increase the number of full F/J/Y tickets sold they are full of themselves.I dobut most companies will allow workers to spend 2x the price in order to get more ff miles or to upgrade.</font>
Jun 30, 2003, 3:10 pm
#39
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Steve M:
Probably not. I don't think any airline thinks it's going to substantially increase the number of full F/J/Y tickets sold industry-wide by any substantial margin. The issue is of those that do get sold, how many are on each carrier? If an airline offers free upgrades which are easy to confirm and other perks for those passengers on Y or near-Y fares, don't you think that those passengers that do fly on those fares will migrate to that carrier, all other things being equal?</font>
Probably not. I don't think any airline thinks it's going to substantially increase the number of full F/J/Y tickets sold industry-wide by any substantial margin. The issue is of those that do get sold, how many are on each carrier? If an airline offers free upgrades which are easy to confirm and other perks for those passengers on Y or near-Y fares, don't you think that those passengers that do fly on those fares will migrate to that carrier, all other things being equal?</font>
-howie
Jul 2, 2003, 12:25 am
#40
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Posts: n/a
Last evening, I was first on the Waitlist for Upgrade with two empty seats out of EWR, when I left the PresClub Lounge at the beginning of boarding. But wasn't upgraded at the Gatedesk! But two gals were moved up from coach before the doors closed! They were not Elite level!
Since this has happened before, there is little reason to continue to work at being Elite with loyalty to CO. This encourages me to fly with a Partner airline, who knows what Electronic Automatic Upgrade means and sticks to it!
Since this has happened before, there is little reason to continue to work at being Elite with loyalty to CO. This encourages me to fly with a Partner airline, who knows what Electronic Automatic Upgrade means and sticks to it!
Jul 2, 2003, 4:00 am
#41
Join Date: May 2003
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Standby4321:
[B]Example: for a relatively paltry $1,300 outlay, I've picked up at least silver elite status until the first quarter of 2005, </font>
[B]Example: for a relatively paltry $1,300 outlay, I've picked up at least silver elite status until the first quarter of 2005, </font>
Just when I thought I had learned it all
How do you get Silver thru 2005?
My 2 cents - if it wasn't for the FF miles I wouldn't travel on NW all the time - they have an old fleet
[This message has been edited by jimc_usa (edited 07-02-2003).]
Sep 18, 2003, 8:18 pm
#42
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Now that Continental Airlines has decided to match Delta Air Lines in terms of future elite qualification, are there any new thoughts pertaining to this topic?
Sep 18, 2003, 8:46 pm
#43
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Canarsie:
Now that Continental Airlines has decided to match Delta Air Lines in terms of future elite qualification, are there any new thoughts pertaining to this topic?</font>
Now that Continental Airlines has decided to match Delta Air Lines in terms of future elite qualification, are there any new thoughts pertaining to this topic?</font>
Sep 19, 2003, 6:25 am
#44
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by slawecki:
Everyone talks about Southwest and their generous program, but few fly on Southwest, because they don't go anywhere to speak of.</font>
Everyone talks about Southwest and their generous program, but few fly on Southwest, because they don't go anywhere to speak of.</font>
From the DOT a week ago:
http://www.dot.gov/affairs/bts1703.htm
Sep 19, 2003, 9:48 am
#45
Join Date: Aug 2000
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by PineyBob:
It sounds to me like you are just accustomed to getting something for nothing... and now that the party is over... well, you know where Im going.
Why fume and fuss? because this is a somewhat short term situation. Profits will be back and the more perks preserved NOW means more perks later. Unions are powerless against the economic tide that is rushing over them. We as the providers of much of that cash get a vote. Remember the "Golden Rule"?? "Those with the gold make the rules" FFers are the single largest "voting block" within the industry in terms of cash to spend. We have econimic power and we should use it early and often to preserve what we percieve as earned benefits in what is sometimes YEARS of loyalty
</font>
It sounds to me like you are just accustomed to getting something for nothing... and now that the party is over... well, you know where Im going.
Why fume and fuss? because this is a somewhat short term situation. Profits will be back and the more perks preserved NOW means more perks later. Unions are powerless against the economic tide that is rushing over them. We as the providers of much of that cash get a vote. Remember the "Golden Rule"?? "Those with the gold make the rules" FFers are the single largest "voting block" within the industry in terms of cash to spend. We have econimic power and we should use it early and often to preserve what we percieve as earned benefits in what is sometimes YEARS of loyalty
</font>