You are the CEO of _____ Airlines.
Dec 16, 2002, 7:19 pm
#17
Moderator: Hilton Honors forums
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Marietta, Georgia, United States
Posts: 24,997
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Gandalf:
I smell a Delta employee. My humble apologies if your not, but this sound just like a Newbie Exec fresh out of an MBA program that the Company shelled out top dinero (No Robert)for and your objective is to "think outside the box" or "break the paradigm".
That being said, 1.) replace the fare structure with an understandable model, 2.) treat the customer like YOU would want to be treated, 3.) respect your employee's, 4.)reward your stockholders and do it in that order.
Again, my apologies if all you say is true but the professionalism of your writing, limited number of posts, hidden e-mail account all triggered the paranoia in me, no it didn't...
G</font>
I smell a Delta employee. My humble apologies if your not, but this sound just like a Newbie Exec fresh out of an MBA program that the Company shelled out top dinero (No Robert)for and your objective is to "think outside the box" or "break the paradigm".
That being said, 1.) replace the fare structure with an understandable model, 2.) treat the customer like YOU would want to be treated, 3.) respect your employee's, 4.)reward your stockholders and do it in that order.
Again, my apologies if all you say is true but the professionalism of your writing, limited number of posts, hidden e-mail account all triggered the paranoia in me, no it didn't...
G</font>
My apologies to you if I made you paranoid. That was unintentional. I am GM on DL and have been for years, and before that, Gold Elite on CO for years (when Gold was the highest level). DL's recently announced SkyMiles program changes triggered my finally deciding to start posting instead of just reading the posts all this time. I especially disagree with their harshly severe upgrade "enhancements" that they just announced.
I underestimated everyone here - I assumed that the whole purpose of the FlyerTalk forums was all about frequent flyer programs, but I like all your answers even better. Sounds like everybody thinks the whole airline business model should be changed, and I could not agree more.
My two cents: I don't drink alcoholic beverages and I like to spend as little time in an airport as possible, so airline clubs are virtually useless to me. I have a free (now expired) one-day CO President's Club pass I never even used!
The only things I like about domestic FC is the slightly extra seat room, the meal (or the few extra bags of pretzels), getting off the airplane first (does not apply on a DL 757 and sometimes DL 767 since they use the second door) and the upgraded headphones. Give me a good coach product and I would never need to upgrade. Unfortunately, I don't really have that choice, living in the Atlanta area and traveling all over the US.
I won't repeat what everyone else said here, as I agree with virtually everything else mentioned here.
Any other thoughts?
[This message has been edited by Canarsie (edited 12-17-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Canarsie (edited 12-17-2002).]
Dec 16, 2002, 9:54 pm
#18
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Here, there, and everywhere. Hip, hip, so hip to be square.
Posts: 1,122
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by pynchonesque:
I think there should be a separate forum for this sort of discussion. Maybe even a rotisserie league. Then the rest of us can focus on buying tickets and being passengers.
</font>
I think there should be a separate forum for this sort of discussion. Maybe even a rotisserie league. Then the rest of us can focus on buying tickets and being passengers.
</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
Mook, I like your profile. It's spunky.</font>
Mook, I like your profile. It's spunky.</font>
Mook
Dec 16, 2002, 10:34 pm
#19
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tha OC
Programs: Outgrew all status except AA: Plat for life (the program's); Costco: Ex Plat
Posts: 654
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Canarsie:
What would you do to improve the airline for the frequent traveler?
</font>
What would you do to improve the airline for the frequent traveler?
</font>
2) Do the opposite
P.S. FEED YOUR PASSENGERS! Sticking people in a narrow space with bad airflow, engine noise, possible turbulence, and no food for six or more hours while starving them is INSANE.
'Course that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Dec 16, 2002, 11:32 pm
#20
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Portland, Oregon; seat 3A
Programs: UA 1K 2021-22-23;Formerly a longtime UA Premier Exec; NW silver (legacy), Alaska Gold (way back)
Posts: 2,316
"Fools rush in . . . " All right, I'll bite.
1. Copy American's lead and offer more room throughout coach. [Maybe do a tie-in with breakfast cereal: "The airline sized for people who ate their Corn Flakes."]
2. Set a sensible floor price for almost all tickets, and stick to it except for things like Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Day, and inaugural service: don't fall victim to the "no marginal cost" siren. The floor for coast-to-coast round trips might be $400 or so. (The majors were willing to fly me cross-country for $190-$220 RT in 1980; $400's not unreasonable today.)
3. Set a sensible ceiling price, let's say $1500 for coast-to-coast round trips.
4. Simplify fares, then don't chase the price cutters; let the other fellow lose his shirt.
5. Don't chase market share at the expense of profits.
6. Make the first class cabins larger (never shorter than 4 rows) and price them at about 25% above full fare coach.
------------------
"Yes, but at least mine will be found in a first class seat." -- Peattie and Taylor
1. Copy American's lead and offer more room throughout coach. [Maybe do a tie-in with breakfast cereal: "The airline sized for people who ate their Corn Flakes."]
2. Set a sensible floor price for almost all tickets, and stick to it except for things like Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Day, and inaugural service: don't fall victim to the "no marginal cost" siren. The floor for coast-to-coast round trips might be $400 or so. (The majors were willing to fly me cross-country for $190-$220 RT in 1980; $400's not unreasonable today.)
3. Set a sensible ceiling price, let's say $1500 for coast-to-coast round trips.
4. Simplify fares, then don't chase the price cutters; let the other fellow lose his shirt.
5. Don't chase market share at the expense of profits.
6. Make the first class cabins larger (never shorter than 4 rows) and price them at about 25% above full fare coach.
------------------
"Yes, but at least mine will be found in a first class seat." -- Peattie and Taylor
Dec 16, 2002, 11:45 pm
#21
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Portland, Oregon; seat 3A
Programs: UA 1K 2021-22-23;Formerly a longtime UA Premier Exec; NW silver (legacy), Alaska Gold (way back)
Posts: 2,316
Further thought:
7. Encourage throw-away ticketing. Let the customer score a victory now and then. Maybe let the customer "throw away" the ticket at the first destination airport by bringing it to the counter and receiving an extra 500 miles or a small gift certificate -- the airline can now sell the return seat to someone else.
8. Give bonus status miles to full-fare travelers -- let them get to elite status first ahead of mileage runners on discount tickets. (I say this against my self-interest.)
9. Add fun to flying where possible. Make us smile and laugh! Print boarding passes on paper stock with travel photos, like sports teams that put players' pictures on ticket stubs. Encourage flight attendants to sing (have you flown with Julie, the singing flight attendant on Horizon, who makes the worst prop flight fun?).
10. Help your front line personnel sell the airline's services. How often have you heard that insipid announcement at the end of a flight: "We are now landing in Chicago, where local time is 5:45 p.m. Thank you for flying Apteryx Airlines today. We recognize that you have a choice of airlines, and we hope that when your plans call for travel in the future, you will consider Apteryx Airlines for your next trip. Please remain seated until the captain has turned off the seat belt sign . . . "
How about: "We will be landing at Chicago's O'Hare Airport in a few minutes, where local time is 5:45 p.m. The temperature is 45 degrees and Chicago has light rain. When you're ready for a warmer climate, try Apteryx Airlines' service from Chicago to Miami, leaving twice daily during the winter months. . . "
Or: "Please be careful when you open the overhead bins to get your cabin baggage, as sometimes bags will shift in flight and move against the bin door. We want you to land with your bags, not under them."
7. Encourage throw-away ticketing. Let the customer score a victory now and then. Maybe let the customer "throw away" the ticket at the first destination airport by bringing it to the counter and receiving an extra 500 miles or a small gift certificate -- the airline can now sell the return seat to someone else.
8. Give bonus status miles to full-fare travelers -- let them get to elite status first ahead of mileage runners on discount tickets. (I say this against my self-interest.)
9. Add fun to flying where possible. Make us smile and laugh! Print boarding passes on paper stock with travel photos, like sports teams that put players' pictures on ticket stubs. Encourage flight attendants to sing (have you flown with Julie, the singing flight attendant on Horizon, who makes the worst prop flight fun?).
10. Help your front line personnel sell the airline's services. How often have you heard that insipid announcement at the end of a flight: "We are now landing in Chicago, where local time is 5:45 p.m. Thank you for flying Apteryx Airlines today. We recognize that you have a choice of airlines, and we hope that when your plans call for travel in the future, you will consider Apteryx Airlines for your next trip. Please remain seated until the captain has turned off the seat belt sign . . . "
How about: "We will be landing at Chicago's O'Hare Airport in a few minutes, where local time is 5:45 p.m. The temperature is 45 degrees and Chicago has light rain. When you're ready for a warmer climate, try Apteryx Airlines' service from Chicago to Miami, leaving twice daily during the winter months. . . "
Or: "Please be careful when you open the overhead bins to get your cabin baggage, as sometimes bags will shift in flight and move against the bin door. We want you to land with your bags, not under them."
Dec 17, 2002, 1:30 am
#22
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pleasant Prairie, WI USA DL FO (until 2/04), NW silver '03, NW gold '04+'05 Plat '06+ (thanks, Leo!), DL SkyClub
Programs: DL Plat/ Million Miler, AS, Hilton, Marriott Bonvoy, Piggly Wiggly Pig Points
Posts: 2,233
I like most of Law Lord's ideas. (Heck, I remember when flying was more fun!)
Except--what the Hell is a "mileage runner" on a cheap ticket?
I realize that there is a schizophrenic fare structure on most airlines, especially most unprofitable ones, but I think it is equally ridiculous for anyone to spend more than they absolutely have to for a ticket.
Except--what the Hell is a "mileage runner" on a cheap ticket?
I realize that there is a schizophrenic fare structure on most airlines, especially most unprofitable ones, but I think it is equally ridiculous for anyone to spend more than they absolutely have to for a ticket.
Dec 17, 2002, 8:13 am
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Does anyone know how much it actually costs the airlines to fly a commercial jet to/from New York/Los Angeles (fuel, fees, salaries, etc.)? I've never seen it broken down into an actual (estimated) dollar amount. Seems like any CEO would have to know that amount, know how much to charge for each seat to surpass that amount, and stick to it, regardless of who can afford it. If it costs $600 per person, it seems the airlines charge Guy A $150 and try to stick Guy B with a $1050 ticket to make up for it. True, you get more Guy A's but do you ever get enough Guy B's to make up for the loss?
Dec 17, 2002, 8:46 am
#24
Moderator: Hilton Honors forums
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Marietta, Georgia, United States
Posts: 24,997
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ShortyDog:
Does anyone know how much it actually costs the airlines to fly a commercial jet to/from New York/Los Angeles (fuel, fees, salaries, etc.)? I've never seen it broken down into an actual (estimated) dollar amount. Seems like any CEO would have to know that amount, know how much to charge for each seat to surpass that amount, and stick to it, regardless of who can afford it. If it costs $600 per person, it seems the airlines charge Guy A $150 and try to stick Guy B with a $1050 ticket to make up for it. True, you get more Guy A's but do you ever get enough Guy B's to make up for the loss?</font>
Does anyone know how much it actually costs the airlines to fly a commercial jet to/from New York/Los Angeles (fuel, fees, salaries, etc.)? I've never seen it broken down into an actual (estimated) dollar amount. Seems like any CEO would have to know that amount, know how much to charge for each seat to surpass that amount, and stick to it, regardless of who can afford it. If it costs $600 per person, it seems the airlines charge Guy A $150 and try to stick Guy B with a $1050 ticket to make up for it. True, you get more Guy A's but do you ever get enough Guy B's to make up for the loss?</font>
Dec 17, 2002, 8:55 am
#26
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 52,575
If I were CEO, I would strive to improve customer service throughout my company. I would seek to identify my brightest, friendliest, and most efficient customer-facing employees and listen to them: how would they improve processes? I'm talking about everything from airport check-in to boarding to telephone service to frequent-flyer program administration. I would try and create a culture where people were rewarded for taking care of the customer in the most efficient manner possible.
Current, airlines already spend a lot of money on their top-tier. There probably isn't much change needed there. But take the mid-tier for example: I'm both PremEx and Platinum. When I call UA, I have to wait on hold - almost every time. When I call AA, I rarely have to wait on hold at all. At the airport, AA has always taken time to rebook me in the most efficient manner possible (even if it's on another airline) when my flight has been canceled. UA has (twice) sent me to the Avis counter and told me to drive. In this example, it is obvious that AA has chosen to invest more in me as a 50,000-mile customer than UA has. Therefore, I continue to give business to AA, whereas I will let my UA status dwindle away to nothing.
If I were a CEO, I would make the mid-tier and low-tier travelers feel rewarded customer-service-wise, not just with bonus miles. These people are most likely to someday become the high-margin ExPlat type traveler in the future. As for everyone else (nonstatus), I would at least try and make their experience tolerable with simplified processes and competent staff. Eliminating ALL hold times and check-in lines might be too costly, but if I can make my lines/holds less than my competitor, then I will win a greater share of those travelers who might someday start flying more.
Current, airlines already spend a lot of money on their top-tier. There probably isn't much change needed there. But take the mid-tier for example: I'm both PremEx and Platinum. When I call UA, I have to wait on hold - almost every time. When I call AA, I rarely have to wait on hold at all. At the airport, AA has always taken time to rebook me in the most efficient manner possible (even if it's on another airline) when my flight has been canceled. UA has (twice) sent me to the Avis counter and told me to drive. In this example, it is obvious that AA has chosen to invest more in me as a 50,000-mile customer than UA has. Therefore, I continue to give business to AA, whereas I will let my UA status dwindle away to nothing.
If I were a CEO, I would make the mid-tier and low-tier travelers feel rewarded customer-service-wise, not just with bonus miles. These people are most likely to someday become the high-margin ExPlat type traveler in the future. As for everyone else (nonstatus), I would at least try and make their experience tolerable with simplified processes and competent staff. Eliminating ALL hold times and check-in lines might be too costly, but if I can make my lines/holds less than my competitor, then I will win a greater share of those travelers who might someday start flying more.
Dec 17, 2002, 11:19 am
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: BOS, MHT
Programs: AA ltg, B6, DL, UA, AS, SPG/Marriott Plt, HH, Hyatt
Posts: 10,052
How about if the CEO were to make it easier just to FLY!
When you book someone else a ticket, you need to show the airline that same credit card. This may have some security reference to it, but it is also extremely inconvenient for all involved. I have run into several instances where it down right stinks!
I think there needs to be a complete overhaul in the system for how to purchase tickets and what the exact industry std. fees or policies are going to be--all over. When it comes to miles fees, change fees, this fee and that fee, it makes it hard to figure out due to changes on an almost daily basis. When it comes to the use of credit cards, it is very bad. Even if you are giving someone a miles award ticket, it is hard to get it right...
My story is avail for those who wish to email me, but basically, I think it is impossible to buy a ticket for someone else without problems popping up down the road. No matter how much you think you have covered, something will go wrong. My latest experience was when UAL desk agent failed to mark something in her system, we later found out, and now we have to do an entire process all over again because, "it's just our policy... sorry sir!"
Also, there are no city desks for the majors in Boston that I know of. This is true for a lot of places.
The airlines should also have city desks in major cities again! All of ours got closed after Sept 11...
We are headed out for the holidays as of Thurs, Dec 19 and I hope the flights go well. I used to be worried about problems with the plane or even just the food or movie. Now it’s all the administration crap that goes along with just getting on board! And I thought I was pretty good at keeping up with their stupid rules. AHHAGHA!
When you book someone else a ticket, you need to show the airline that same credit card. This may have some security reference to it, but it is also extremely inconvenient for all involved. I have run into several instances where it down right stinks!
I think there needs to be a complete overhaul in the system for how to purchase tickets and what the exact industry std. fees or policies are going to be--all over. When it comes to miles fees, change fees, this fee and that fee, it makes it hard to figure out due to changes on an almost daily basis. When it comes to the use of credit cards, it is very bad. Even if you are giving someone a miles award ticket, it is hard to get it right...
My story is avail for those who wish to email me, but basically, I think it is impossible to buy a ticket for someone else without problems popping up down the road. No matter how much you think you have covered, something will go wrong. My latest experience was when UAL desk agent failed to mark something in her system, we later found out, and now we have to do an entire process all over again because, "it's just our policy... sorry sir!"
Also, there are no city desks for the majors in Boston that I know of. This is true for a lot of places.
The airlines should also have city desks in major cities again! All of ours got closed after Sept 11...
We are headed out for the holidays as of Thurs, Dec 19 and I hope the flights go well. I used to be worried about problems with the plane or even just the food or movie. Now it’s all the administration crap that goes along with just getting on board! And I thought I was pretty good at keeping up with their stupid rules. AHHAGHA!
Dec 17, 2002, 12:23 pm
#28
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 52,575
Man, I sure do miss the CTO's!! I know the airlines pretty much all determined that they did not add to the bottom line, but they were wonderful when I was traveling regularly on business. I always found the agents at AA's CTO's to be the most courteous, professional people one could ask for. Unfortunately, it appears that CTO's are a relic of the past in most places.
Dec 17, 2002, 12:29 pm
#29
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Posts: 1,295
I'd stop adding those revenue generating fees for services that have always been free,
like standbuy and excess weight charges over 50 lbs. It's alienating those keeping you in business. IMO, dropping the changes before they are even begun only makes it worse because it forces the airlines to admit they used poor judgement.
like standbuy and excess weight charges over 50 lbs. It's alienating those keeping you in business. IMO, dropping the changes before they are even begun only makes it worse because it forces the airlines to admit they used poor judgement.
Dec 17, 2002, 1:22 pm
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: BOS, MHT
Programs: AA ltg, B6, DL, UA, AS, SPG/Marriott Plt, HH, Hyatt
Posts: 10,052
All the fees and add-ons in recent times have certainly scared away tons of business and leisure travelers. It is no wonder that the majors continue to lose money. Our expectations continue to be compromised each time we fly one of them. So we hate it more and more.
And the majors still blame Sept 11 for all of this? It is strange to see that they are making travel worse themselves and it is wearing on us, the very passengers who pay them. Then they go file chapter 11. It's no wonder: A cycle indeed...
I might go with Southwest.
And the majors still blame Sept 11 for all of this? It is strange to see that they are making travel worse themselves and it is wearing on us, the very passengers who pay them. Then they go file chapter 11. It's no wonder: A cycle indeed...
I might go with Southwest.