I just emailed this thread to Adam Burke, Hilton's FT lurker, and invited his response. Lets see if Hilton really cares about it HHonors members' concerns. Any bets whether he'll respond or not?

Adam Burke has had many opportunities to address these issues and has chosen to remain mute. Adam your silence is deafening. My money is on Starwood properties increasing their occupancy rate.

I'm a desk clerk at a business hotel in a small market. (Sounds like the opening of Penthouse letter....) Anyway, my personal experience is that as soon as someone (elite member or not) starts "demanding" something that is not spelled out, their chances of getting that something become inversely proportional to the amount of noise they make. We will bend over backward to make our guests comfortable and happy, but don't be coming at me with "I deserve better treatment than those people because I'm elite". All of our guests deserve the same treatment, some just qualify for different amenities. If you qualify and I have it available, you get it. If it's not available, shining your butt at me isn't going to make it available.

dupe post - sorry

[This message has been edited by Thumper (edited 04-23-2002).]

Welcome to Flyertalk!

It is invaluable to us as travelers to have an insight like yours. It is very obvious that being abusive isn't the path to go.

I am intrigued by your comment that all travelers are to be treated equally, whether they are frequent guests or not.

Honestly, I look at my stay as more valuable to your hotel than the casual user. I spend 25 to 30 nights a year in Denver, as an example, and am free to choose where I want to stay. Don't you think there needs to be a better system to identify travelers like me?
And to make sure its your property that I return to?

How would manage the balance?

All of our guests DO deserve the same treatment. Note that I qualified that statement by saying that elite member are eligible for more amenities. The day I start thinking I should treat one guest better than another will be the day I should get out of the business. The most important guest in the history of our hotel is the next one I deal with.

I just arrive in SF last night - staying at a Sheraton. I am Starwood platinum, and know I am "entitled" to a suite upgrade if available.

Upon checkin, I asked "are there any suites available" and was told no, they are all sold out.

I then politely asked - is it possible one might be available later in the week. He said he would check. I said it wasn't a big deal, I could check back in a couple days.

He continued checking his computer, and voila - assigned me a nice suite for the entire week.

I don't know what would have happened if I had demanded a suite - but even if I'd have gotten one, it would have left a bad taste all around. Instead, I did what our mom's always told us "asked nicely" - and I end up a happy customer.

Someone once suggested smoking out suite upgrade availablity by walking up to the check-in and not identifying yourself, but asking, do you have any suites to rent tonight? If the answer is yes, then introduce yourself and tell them that you are checking as a Diamond anmd you're glad it's available to upgraded to.

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"You are A Freak. You are A Freak. You are A Freak. You are A Freak."

-- Wingless, DUS-ORD, February 10, 2002...

Do you remember the movie for Love or Glory, with Michael J. Fox and Gabrielle Anwar? Remember how Fox kept on trying to get this guy who he thought was a big time player to bankroll his project and that guy essentially screwed him? And remember how the guy who was staying at the hotel for the first time ever happened to be a guy who had so much capital that he could have bought and sold the guy Fox was targeting ten times over without a sweat?

Same thing applies here. Before you go and act like you're a big player because you stay at a particular hotel 30 nights a year, think of this. A meeting planner who books one board meeting there racks up more rooms in one week than you'll rack up in an entire year. And that meeting planner also does catering, AV, and so on.
Plus, this guy already said that you will get what you're supposed to receive if it's available, and if it's not available, then you won't. That's the right attitude to have.
I like the attitude that says I will treat all my customers well, and nobody will get better treatment than others. Just because you stay at a particular place a lot shouldn't mean that you get anything more than the guy who shows up for the first time. You never know. That guy showing up for the first time may want to book a meeting there later, and he'll spend more than you do.

And let's be honest here. A lot of the folks here are trying to game the system, to get their "elite" status as cheaply as possible. I guarantee you that someone who's travelling for business and who isn't concerned about the costs generates more revenue in a few trips for the various companies he uses than a lot of the folks here do all year!

I mean, there were posts talking about how to become a 1K on UAL for less than a grand. I spent twice, three times that for a last minute trip that I needed to take! I did that before I got "elite" status on them. So even though I wasn't an "elite" flyer, I generated more revenue in one trip than the folks who gamed the system and got their 1Ks did.

So you never know who the customer will be who generates the big bucks. That's why you have to treat all of them well.

What happened between, "No, they are all sold out" and "voila, nice suite for the entire week."? I'm sure at this point you were glad to have the upgraded room, but playing devils's advocate, when you first asked, either the agent: a) lied flat out to you about availability, or b) was incompetant about not taking the extra 90 seconds (?) or so to check for availability.

The next time you ask for an upgrade and the answer is no, you have to ask yourself, a) is there really no availability, b) does the agent not know how to check for availabiltiy, c) did I not say the right things, or send out good vibes, to get the agent to try to find an upgrade for me?

Jeff

Hey I agree with mdtony!

Seriously, if you get indifferent, mediocre service, do you say to yourself "this is where I want to spend all my money so they'll treat me better? I don't. If a service business can't treat every customer with respect, consideration and some degree of friendliness, they really don't deserve to succeed. I applaud og719's attitude (and welcome to flyertalk).

Howdy folks,

Here's my sorry butt two cents.

How about loyalty programs reward us in direct response to the net profit they make on us? With all my last minute flights and rack rate hotel rooms, I'd do well

Anyway - the point of my response here was to make note that I hope I have the pleasure of staying in og719's hotel. That's the kind of hotel I'd appreciate.

Go og719!

Keep the faith,

Pakse

I don't think it's a question of confusion.

Whether it's a hotel program, casino VIP club, or Subway sandwich card, there is always a gap between what the program promises and the individual properties deliver.

I think the reason is simple: the individual property does not directly benefit from upgrading any particular individual. And it's too easy to cheat (deny benefits), because only a small number will complain.

Sometimes, corporate simply gives up trying to enforce a program. Subway did that with their "frequent sandwich card". Despite being bound by their franchise agreement, individually-owned Subways decided the program program was too generous for their liking and made up their own rules. Several in my area decided half the stamps had to have come from their store in order to redeem a freebie. Called corporate, they said, "I understand your frustration, but what can we do?" How about you revoke their franchise. Other than legal action, there may not be anything to do when faced with a mutiny. They eventually replaced the program with a watered-down version that requires a drink purchase.

It says right in the literature you get with your Harrah's VIP Diamond card that you're entitled to free accomodations at any Harrah's anywhere in the U.S. But if you try to collect on that at a property you have no history at, you'll get a load of gas. Faxing them a copy of the blurbage may still leave them unmoved.

I've heard stories of HH and SW hotels pretending not to have upgraded rooms available when they didn't feel like giving them out to Diamond and Platinum cardholders.

By all means protest loudly and often if you don't get your due, but I don't see any of this changing any time soon.

~BK

Hotel programs already do that, to an extent (stays determine status but $$$ determine points).

And I guarantee you that if the 6 major airlines thought they could get away with it, they'd switch to a revenue-based FF/elite system tomorrow.

SP

Are some of you LOOKING for confrontation EVERYTIME you check into a property? Life is too short isn't it?

Seriously, I think there might be a problem with the attitude of the individuals on this board who routinely have "problems" obtaining what they feel as though they "deserve". I don't.

As a HHonors VIP Preferred, I very RARELY find myself in a circumstance in which the property failed to deliver to my expectations. While I can be very demanding I am very gracious when I tell ask for the best possible accomodations and other amenities. MOST IMPORTANTLY, I AM FLEXIBLE AND REALISTIC. If my reservation was made at the very last minute (as in five minutes before I arrive) and the property is full - I am more understanding as far as the possibilities for being upgraded are concerned.

There are rare instances in which the front desk manager has a negative attitude toward HHonors Elites. I interpret that to mean he or she doesn't appreciate the long-term value of the customer - and as a stock-holder in the company AND an HHonors Elite, only THEN do I feel the need to through my weight around. This happened ONE TIME LAST YEAR out of a total of over 100 nights with Hilton Hotels Worldwide.

It seems to me that some of the SAME people are complaining AGAIN AND AGAIN about properties all over the country. Could there be more to the problem? I think that those of you who go to check-in LOOKING for a confrontation will never be disappointed.

Just as an aside I will tell you that when I was a very young man I used to get a thrill out of trying to get upgraded into first class wherever I could whether that involved hotel suites, commercial airplanes, private dining rooms, private limousines, etc. Back then - I didn't have the STATUS (the official credentials) - all I had to go on was charm - pure charm. I never forgot how successful I was on charm all by itself. I still lead with it and my "credentials" come second - I suspect that method has much more to do with my 99% satisfaction rate than my "status". Perhaps those who "always" have problems "getting what they deserve" might give it a try sometime? They might be surprised at how well they might do on charm alone. Its a good lesson in humility.


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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been,and there you will forever long to return." Leonardo da Vinci

200 nights/200 legs a year



[This message has been edited by hotlancer (edited 04-23-2002).]