There are definitely some factual issues that need to be resolved here. I believe the Secret Service is looking into this matter too and their investigation might shed some light on this if they take any action against the agent. There are enough eyewitnesses so that we may eventually get some idea of what really happened, although from the descriptions I have read, it may be hard to prove racism beyond a reasonable doubt.

It may turn out that we have two prima donnas here.

Still, if there was any real doubt that the agent was legitimate, the airport should have been closed down because of a security breach.

As a general issue though, I just wonder if the new policy at some airlines (or at least with some customer service agents and pilots) will be that any passenger, especially one with an accent for foreign features, which has a customer service issue with the airline will be considered a security risk.

Good for you!

Let me clarify. You said the Captain had every right to interrogate the Secret Service agent because he needs to be sure the agent is not a fake. What I am saying is that is not the reason the Captain interrogated the Secret Service agent, because the Captain was convinced by the Maryland Airport Authority police that the agent was for real.

The next step is to find out the real reason for the Captain's interrogation, now that we know that the agent's identity ceased to be an issue at some point during the interrogation.

I again point out that you have misread the press release, and are construing it to say exactly the opposite of what it does. If you believe the captain is misrepresenting why he interrogated the agent, that's one thing, but if you cite the press release as proof of this, you are simply wrong. I ask you to reread it:

"Upon all the information that I had up to this point - I had doubt as to his actual representation as a Special Agent for the Secret Service. 1. *Two improperly filled out AA Form E2. 2. *Flt atts bringing to my attention what appeared to be strange behavior. 3. *Hostility toward me for trying to correct my required paper work. I then had the Maryland Airport Authority police determine his proper ID by calling the Secret Service as to his legitimate status. This took about ten minutes to complete. In the interim I was given a third improperly filled out AA Form E2. This had no signature of the LEO. No initial as to the traveling status of the officer. No phone number. While the police were determining the proper status of this individual this person came up to me with loud abusive comments as to his being denied boarding. That he has the powers of the White House behind him and that this is not of [sic] the end of this matter. The police agreed with me that there was a legitimate concern because of his unprofessional behavior. This was all in full view of every passenger boarding the flight. He then said he would not board the flt."

Note that every single bit of this quotation I placed above occured before the captain was convinced of the agents legitimacy. Make sure to take note of the part I bolded up there, which removes all doubt on this issue...

He does say the agent eventually turned out to be legitimate, which is a statement of some obviousness since we all know this in retrospect. Where you err is in assuming the timing of this discovery occured before the interrogation. As the captain explicitly says in his press release, he was not convinced of the agents status before the interrogation began.

benoit, I think that you are being selective in how you have read the captains statement. First the captain new that the armed LEO was on the flight and had seen this improperly filled out paperwork. It is only after the #1 flt at. brought to his attention that the passenger asked for them not to leave while his property was on the plane or without him. Gosh that sure is strange behavior I would never do that. The major thing that the flt att. brought to the pilots attention is that the person had arabic writing and we would be naive and idiots if we are to believe that she did not describe him as an arab individual! "This pax left the aircraft with carryon bags still in his seat. He told the flt att. Please don't leave without him. While the pax was away a flt att observed books in the individuals seat which were written in what she assessed was Arabic style print. " So no matter what else happened the pilot only seemed to care about him, his paperwork and credentials after learning he was arabic. I am sorry that is the same as several of the other stories that have been published in that arabic looking men are denied boarding by suspicious flight crews, even after being checked and rechecked by security and police.

OK for the flames about Reid making it past security. That just proves that there will be holes in any security system. Yet to ban all arabs from planes is to create the exact situation that terrorists desire. From a purely military standpoint, you cannot defeat this type of enemy without winning hearts and minds. I want pilots that understand how to fly the plane as well as they can. I do not expect or believe that they can now be our security experts. When we have the failures in the system that will happen, the passengers will make sure that 9-11 does not happen again.

------------------
Robert

But if we believe the account by other "eyewitnesses", there's been conflicting accounts such as

"he only left his jacket, not his carry-on"

which is inconsistent with the news that the books were found in his carry-on, left on his seat.

"the flight attendant called the agent off the plane to examine the paperwork"

which is inconsistent with the captain's statement that he didn't examine the paperwork until after the FA looked through the carry-on.

But for me, the one thing which nails down the case, in AA's favor is

Err.. I have yet to read any such statement from the Maryland Transit Authority. No offense, but you're effectively putting words in the mouth of a policeman.

FWIW, I'm still waiting to hear directly from the other PAX and/or police. I wonder if the claim that will arise if the police say he WASN'T a problem is are they backing up a fellow thin blue line member because of a brotherhood code.

I suspect we'll never truly know what happened, since different people have different pieces of the puzzle. Although my understanding was (from an earlier article) that the book was retrieved from his *jacket*, which was left in his seat when he was asked to deplane the first time. A paperback with an English title (but set in a flowing psuedo Arabic script).

The Agent apprently doesn't read Arabic, so it's a fair bet the book was probably not in Arabic.

Regards,
-Bouncer-

Most of the Americans of Arab descent in the military, law enforcement and intelligence community are Lebanese Maronite Christians or Greek Orthodox Christians. Interestingly, this Secret Service man is muslim (since CAIR is involved). Must be one of the few.


[This message has been edited by GUWonder (edited 01-04-2002).]

Two passengers have come out to support the secret service agent.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/01/04/agent.passengers/

it may boil down to this, whats the difference between god and a pilot or a secret service agent? ans " god doesn't think he's a pilot or a secret service agent"

sorry-dupe- i thought i had retrained myself on posting- must have taken a coffee break.

[This message has been edited by clacko (edited 01-04-2002).]

While stuck at MSY because of snow in Atlanta even though my flight was to CVG -- go figure -- I got to chat with a deadheading pilot. He says he figures that the secret service agent was a real ..., got all huffy and nasty with the crew, and then the captain said, well, if he's being an ..., I'll get him off the flight.

After all is said and done, I'll bet that's what the story is. The agent, after being delayed, started *****ing and screaming and saying do you know who I am and how important I am and the pilot got pissed and said, oh, yeah, well, I can get you off this plane so screw you.

In other words, it became a pissing contest and the pilot won.

I had stopped reading this thread due to the ongoing one sided discussions, most of which avoided some simple reality. This post(below) seems to be much closer to what might have happened. It is now close to impossible to get to (all) the truth since both sides are now forced to protect and defend themselves.

If the pilot did have some concerns of ethnic background, he can not say so. If the agent got a little bossy or even slightly pushy, no way will he admit it now.

It su*ks. It stinks. It happens.

For more facts, read http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...lines%2Dnation

It doesn't make either side look very good.

I hope these 2 "witnesses" are not the ones the lawyers plan to call.

One of them remained on the plane the whole time and didn't see any of the confrontation.

The other one only saw the agent after he was ejected from the plane and after his supervisor had spoken to him.

I don't think they'll make good witnesses at all.

Anyways, I agree it was a pissin' contest. But the agent, Walied Shater, will be the one who lost on both levels. He didn't get on the flight, and he'll likely find himself off the Presidential Detail soon after embarassing the Service.