Secret Service Agent Removed from Plane!
 

If there is anyone left who has confidence in the "security" personnel at airports, this should convince even you that those people are crazy:

Guard for Bush Isn't Allowed Aboard Flight

By THE NEW YORK TIMES

WASHINGTON, Dec. 26 — An Arab-American member of President Bush's security detail was denied passage on an American Airlines flight from Baltimore to Dallas Tuesday evening after the flight's pilot questioned the validity of the agent's credentials, a spokesman for the Secret Service said tonight.

The agent, who was armed, was originally scheduled to accompany the president aboard Air Force One to Crawford, Tex. He was was on a commercial flight because of a change in Mr. Bush's schedule.

After a mechanical problem prompted the agent's original flight, American Flight 1191, to be canceled, the agent boarded American Flight 363 shortly before 5 p.m., scheduled to depart Baltimore Washington International Airport at 5:15 p.m.

Once seated, he was confronted by airline security personnel, the Secret Service said, and was asked to exit the plane and submit to additional security checks.

After a delay of an hour and 15 minutes, during which the agent was questioned by the flight's pilot, airline officials and airport police, the agent was ordered removed from the flight even though he had offered to have the Secret Service confirm his identity.

Brian Marr, the Secret Service spokesman, confirmed the account of the incident this evening but declined further comment. Phone calls to the airline tonight went unanswered.

A complaint filed today to the Council on Arab-Islamic Relations, an advocacy group in Washington that tracks cases of racial profiling, called the incident evidence that profiling of Arab- and Muslim-Americans at the nation's airports had increased since Sept. 11.

"They didn't see an American, they didn't see a law enforcement professional," said Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the group. "All they saw was a racial and ethnic profile that they didn't want on their flight."

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Unfortunately this doesn't surprise me in the least. The pilot must be auditioning for a part in the remake of "DUMB AND DUMBER".

I hope American doesn't have to go begging to the government for any more money!

For the morons that questioned him to refuse to contact the Secret Service in order to confirm his identity borders on gross imcompetence. This is a disgrace and they should either be suspended or fired. I wonder if they attempted to remove his weapon during this questioning?

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Look at it from AA's point of view and you can see that it's not that strange.

1) Person of Arab descent

2) Last minute one-way ticket

3) Boarded at last minute

4) Obviouslt fit person, likely armed

5) Gives off some of that intimidating vibe that police officers (or hardened criminals) do.

6) Secret Service personnel on the Presidential Detail don't usually travel commercial.

7) Recent terrorist incident on an AA flight

Throw all these conditions together, and I don't find it surprising at all that he was denied boarding.

Another story that makes you wonder if Micky Mouse is heading up the security forces with deputy Pluto.

They let an armed man get on the plane. At some point htey decide maybe they shouldn't have him on, so they ask him to leave. If they were concerned, perhaps they should have detained him on the other side of the secure area? If he wasn't who he said he was he could have left weapons all over the place, including on board.

Perhaps if there is any question, they should resolve it on the other side of security.

This would have been solved by just calling the secret service and confirming the guys identity. Someone at AA dropped the ball here, IMO.

Oh, come on! They delayed the flight for 1 hour and 15 minutes while they questioned him. Couldn't they have verified his identity in that length of time? Couldn't they have called the Secret Service at the White House and just gotten some supervisor on the phone to say, "Sure, I know Bob" (or whatever his name is)?

This is simply outrageous and idiotic. If a Secret Service agent has to suffer like this, you can imagine what we will have to go through. (And I'm going to the airport tomorrow morning.)

Bruce

1. News like this sucks.

2. Plato90s your points represent a valid alternative viewpoint. I hadn't considered some of those points. Thank you for sharing them.

What luncacy. Morons all around.

So much for anyone even remotely resembling a person of middle eastern descent becoming a sky marshal, the assumed panacea for what ails commercial travel. AA probably wouldn't let them fly.

And tmorse6570, you're right about the other panacea, the national id badge.

Employees afraid to fly should step aside and let others do the job. period.

[This message has been edited by FWAAA (edited 12-27-2001).]

The points made by Plato90s are entirely valid and would constitute a plausible defense of mistaken identity, but are overridden by the fact that this agent:

• Had Identification.
• Made an offer to have his identity verified.
• Had already been allowed to wander around the airport and board the plane with a weapon. He had to present his identification previously to enter the secure area with a weapon. If he was such a threat, the entire terminal should have been closed and thoroughly searched.

I truly believe that everyone involved on AA's payroll should be suspended or fired. This is a Keystone Kops operation that makes Argenbright look positively intelligent.

CWPFLY

edited for typo

[This message has been edited by cwpfly (edited 12-27-2001).]

The inmates are running the asylum

While I agree with Plato90's assesment...it should have taken them 10 minutes to verify this guys identity.

I noticed in the story that airport police were called. Isn't that Maryland State Police? I'd like to see their take on this. I don't see any police spokesperson commenting on their involvement. Surely they would have the capability to make a few calls and sort something like this out.

[This message has been edited by tom911 (edited 12-27-2001).]

Think about this guy checking in

Agent: Sorry I'm late

Boss: You were suppossed to be here hours ago. McClure had to cover your shift. I hope you have a good explanation.

Agent: The AA pilot threw me off the plane.

Boss: What?

Agent: They wouldn't let me fly.
Getting an understnading look on his face -
Boss: Look, we all party a little too much from time to time. If you had to sleep one off, just let me know. At least come up with a better story than that.

A guy with a bomb in his shoe gets on (after being told the day before he was denied boarding) and a Secret Service Agent is thrown off. Interesting times we live in.

Frank

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TANSTAAFL - but if you work it right, FF miles comes pretty close.

Suprising, no. Unreasonable, yes. The point is that they were willing to take an hour-and-a-half to interrogate this man but were unwilling to make a 10 minute phone call. (They even could have had a fax of his picture sent to them if they wnated to be really paranoid.)

Every gate agent, every pilot, every national guardsman, every baggage scanner, and every policeman is identified by their ID cards. Apparently these cards are not useful if you "look wrong".

I disagree with Plato90s (which is probably obvious already). Plato90s made some unsupported assumptions:

1. Traveling on a one-way ticket. This is not reported by the New York Times.

2. Secret Service agents on presidential detail do not normally travel commercial. As one who worked for a time in the White House complex during the Reagan years, I can say with certainty that this is not true. Many Secret Service agents travel in advance of the President, for lots of obvious reasons, and they indeed travel commercial. Nothing unusual about it.

If this country is going to continue being America as we have known it, then idiotic nonsense like this has got to end immediately. Air crews cannot merely say, "I'm uncomfortable with this guy on 'my' plane," and get away with having the guy thrown off. The guy has rights, too, even if he is a Secret Service agent (joke!).

My opinion: If the flight crew is uncomfortable in situations this innocuous, then THEY should get off -- perhaps permanently.

I am now putting on my asbestos suit.

Bruce

As Sonny and Cher once sand " and the beat goes on... and on and on and on..."

I sit and laugh at this whole thing. Guy with gun gets through security, but they do not empty airport. Guy with gun is on plane and they ask him to step outside. What if he WAS a bad guy, could he have started shooting right then?

And for all you guys that give the rent a cops a hard time, it appears they got it right. But the "professionals" had the problems.

With any luck, we can kill the airline industry and the economy yet. When will we have AmFly - a fully owned subsidiary of AmTrak?

Everybody is saying "why couldnt they just make a call and verify the guy's identity?" as if that's a trivial matter. Do you understand that size of the organizations you are talking about? I doubt that it can be done in an hour, given the level of security held by secret service agents working in the president's detail.

Frankly, I agree with what was said: this was a case of airport security more-or-less doing their job... he fit the profile, he was armed, his reason for flying was suspect. An ID card was not a good enough reason to let him on the plane.

Keep in mind that the guy with the shoebomb was also detained by security and actually allowed to fly the next day. This is not an exact science and never will be. There will be plenty of errors made on both sides of the right/wrong line.

Ron

News like this does suck indeed.

It is embrassing for both parties.

While nobody has said that this is a one-way ticket, I think that's almost certainly the case. Remember that this guy was supposed to be on Air Force One, so buying a RT ticket makes sense only if he won't be returning on AF1 either.

While I forgot to add it, this agent was also flying on Christmas day. FAA has advisories out which suggest airlines tighten security to avoid allowing people from slipping in through the holiday crowds.

It's also quite true that advance teams do go out ahead of any planned presidential trips to secure the area, but they don't travel alone and not last minute. The airlines are required to be notified of the transit of armed passengers, per FAA regulations.

Inferring from the articles I have seen, this agent did not identify himself to the airline, or else the airlines would have known in advance to check his identity.

Calling Secret Service would not be a conclusive answer, IMO. First of all, Secret Service is not in the habit of sharing details about its agents, even with state police. Secondly, it's not all that difficult an exercise to tap the phone of the airport and re-direct calls. You think you're calling Secret Service, but you might be talking to a guy with a tap into a phone hub.

In fact, I think a good deal of the screw-up belongs to Secret Service. An armed agent was boarding a commercial flight on Christmas on a flight path which takes them close over restricted airspace. Secret Service should have called ahead to AA, instead of having the agent telling AA to call Secret Service.

Airlines are responsible for security, and they are doing their job. If the SS [or FBI or ATF or any other agency] want to have one of their armed agent fly commercial, tell them to call ahead to the airlines.

Another scenario: could the agent have identified himself on boarding and even visited the cockpit and offered to surrender his weapon for the duration of the flight?

Jim

I am sure that the State Police have a contact person at the Secret Service that could have verified the ageny's identify by a faxed picture in less than the time that they detained him.

There is absolutely no argument or rationalzation for this type of activity happening, that can justify what took place.

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I may be wrong, but Federal agents (FBI, Secret Service, etc.) are required to carry their weapons.

Frankly, I would be a happy camper, if he would be on a flight that I was taking.



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"Do you understand that size of the organizations you are talking about? I doubt that it can be done in an hour, given the level of security held by secret service agents working in the president's detail."

Umm... it's not that hard. Pick up cell phone. Call supervisor. He calls someone on his contact list, say.. Superintendent of Maryland State Police. At home. In bed. Sup calls Airport and says: "Let him through or you are all working a trash detail for the rest of your lives".

Agent on plane.

Seriously, the Secret Service absolutely has duty officers at communications facilities 24/7 who can reach out to another agency any minute of any day.

The whole :
"This is the White House calling, please stand by" has an AMAZING way of making people pay attention.

Regards,
-Bouncer-

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

I think it's probably a bit difficult to get a hold of all the necessary personnel on Christmas day at 5pm.

As for the supervisor, I'm going to guess he was on Air Force One. This agent was part of the presidential detail, so presumably the rest of the detail was on AF1.

Assuming there's actually a permanent liasion officer assigned to the Maryland police, does anyone think he's working Christmas day?

So let's cut to the scene on Tuesday...

You're the cop who has to be on duty at the BWI airport on Christmas. By default that means you're a pretty junior officer (or on your commander's ****-list), since senior officers have managed to take the day off. Do you...

a) pick up the phone and call your lieutenant or captain so that they can interrupt their holiday in order to track down Secret Service to verify this guy's identity, just so you can let a federal agent board a flight to DFW.

b) simply do nothing to help this guy. Nobody ever got fired (especially in an union shop like the Police Department) by following the written rules. The written rules say an airline can refuse to carry a passenger at their discretion. The policeman on the spot merely agree that he can't verify the identity and let the airline refuse to seat him.

Which do you think is the choice most police will make?

[This message has been edited by Plato90s (edited 12-27-2001).]

The presidential security detail is BIG, more than 200 when I worked in EXOP. Some are with the President; others are not. The White House switchboard can locate people anywhere, anytime -- it's simply amazing what they can do. All the MD State Police had to do was call the White House and ask to speak with the Secret Service agent in charge at the moment. There's always one there, and he could have cleared this up quite rapidly. The notion that a call to the White House could be misdirected to an accomplice terrorist -- and not be detected in any number of ways -- is just science fiction, in my opinion (asbestos suit already on).

Bruce

plato,

i agree that the keystone kops were covering their collective @$$, but that certainly doesn't make it the right thing to do.

what if, God forbid, something had happened on that flight and the armed federal agent were left behind on the ground. those airline personnel who denied him boarding would be responsible.

there is just no excuse for this kind of lunacy.

I suspect there will be more to this story. As stated, I find it hard to believe, even given the paranoia of certain flight crews.

1. My memory is that any person (i.e. - law enforcement) carrying a firearm onto a plane, on their person (even before 9/11), was required to fill out a form which was given to AA. Either the agent complied with that requirement (which means that the pilot had already been told, by management, that he had an armed peace officer on board) or the agent didn't comply with the procedure, which is difficult to imagine. (In order to get through security, with a firearm, I presume that he had to show the right papers to the security people).

2. The supposition about his supervisor being on AF1 doesn't persuade me. There is a duty officer and *lots* of supervisors on the phone 24 hours a day. If it was really a question of whether SA xxx works for the Secret Service, and can be described as xxx, it would be simple to get verification. Even if the flight crew didn't think of this option, I would hope that a member of the presidents security detail would know how to operate a telephone.

Considering the fact that he was on the plane, confirming his identity seems like a moot point that should have been taken care of before.

I would have to believe though that the Maryland State Police certainly have the contacts and ability to verify Secret Service identities in minutes, being they are right next to Washington. Maybe it would be a bit more difficult in Alaska, but being 10 mintues away you would have to assume they work together.

if this person was deadheading, the gun should have been checked. there is no reason that anyone should have a gun in the cabin if not for the purpose of the trip such as escorting a prisoner or being a marshall on duty. i wonder how much the ticket cost? was the person in f or y ? edit to add ... i hope the faa & the rest of the gov't [congress etc] praises the action as being the result of enhanced security!

[This message has been edited by clacko (edited 12-27-2001).]

This is the part of the story I find disturbing apart from the "security" people's failure to verify his id. We all know its better err on the safe side, but a government official, especially one who is overcautious in doing his job, should not be running off to file complaints with a defamation league which may have ties to islamic terrorism itself. He should have gone to his "boss" and had the president make a call.

Actually, in the airport, it's probably the Maryland Transit Authority Police. They have jurisdiction at airports and on the light rail in Baltimore.

He wasn't deadheading. He was going to Texas to protect the President. I'm certain he was on duty.

Undoubtedly, he was traveling on a government contract fare, almost certainly in Y.

Bruce

I beg to differ with you on whether he should have been armed on that flight. Even if he is off duty, he is permitted to carry his weapon. Please tell me the difference between a Secret Service agent and a Sky Marshall if they are both armed. Frankly speaking I would rather have the Secret Service agent on my flight than a sky marshall, based on the years of training that they receive.

I know that some people will argue that the Sky Marshalls are trained to handle disturbances on planes. However as far as I am concerned, to be a Secret Service agent that is part of the presidential detail requires a much higher level of training than any Sky Marshall will receive in his lifetime.



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This is the whole point. Let's review.

ID is irrelevant. Communication with authorities aren't to be trusted. Evidence is entirely unnecessary to make a decision.

In a world like this, police and pilots alike will make just one type of decision, i.e., the wrong one. It's no longer a matter of checking your bags and making sure that your papers are in order. The bar has been raised again. There is no "proper" way to get on an airplane.

Anyone who can possibly be perceived as posing a threat has no rights. Those who detain you have no obligation to provide any evidence. It only gets worse from here.

Where's the guy with the Ben Franklin quote when you need him?

This makes no sense. You had the guy clear security with his gun. That obviously means that someone checked out his credentials and allowed him to carry his gun with him, correct?

So, if that was done, then what's the issue? You already let him carry a weapon with him based upon the presumption that he's a law enforcement officer. If that is the case, then what's the issue? Let him fly.

You let him carry his weapon with him, so his credentials were good enough for that. Now you say they're not good enough for him to fly?

It makes no sense.

"After a delay of an hour and 15 minutes, during which the agent was questioned by the flight's pilot, airline officials and airport police, the agent was ordered removed from the flight even though he had offered to have the Secret Service confirm his identity."

It is quite ironic that our security measures will bar a secret service agent from flying and yet let a terrorst board with explosives in his shoes.

I don't think racial profiling was the reason to subject the secret service agent to questioning, but I do wonder, with all else being equal, had the agent been non-Arabic, would a call have been made to the secret service to confirm his credentials?