It was dangerous before, but now that my cigar cutter rests safely in the big pile of sharp things at LAX, we're all OK.

I guess it's a lack of imagination, but I'm unable to come up with a way to take over the plane with a cigar cutter. They had obviously done it before; they recognized the silhouette in the X-ray and asked me specifically to cough up the cigar cutter.

Interestingly, I was on a long trip, and the cutter had been in my bag through LGA, BOS, JFK, SFO, SEA, and SAN before LAX stopped the madness. It is good to know that someone is out there to save flyers from the cigar cutter-wielding maniacs like me.

Fly with assurance that your security is in good hands.

------------------

I think too much emphasis is placed on the goofballs at the security checkpoint. They are fussing over nail clippers. Take one or two of them and have them open and search the luggage. It's been all over the news (but long known by FTers) that any idiot terrorist can put a bomb in the luggage.

Osama is probably waiting for when he can get 19-20 terrorists together (like he did on 9-11). If he was satisfied with putting 1 bomb, it would have happened already. He wants to take down 2 or 3 dozen planes, I'm sure.

Please see the circumcision topic in Omni for how this could be a weapon.
Thank you.

Regards,
-Bouncer-
PS: Either that, or you could threaten to chop their fingertips off.

Or perhaps the cigar cutter could be taken apart and the razor used as a weapon. Who knows, quite frankly it's getting a little old hearing all the complaints about what they are taking at security. If you just double check and make absolutely sure that you don't have any cutting objects of any kind then you should do just fine. I fly at least once or twice a week, going through security three or four times a week. I have not had anything taken from me because I don't have anything that is not allowed. As for nail clippers I simply carry a pair without a file/blade on them and I get along quite nicely. Where should they draw the line? It seems to me that by the actions of a few on 9/11 it's clear that they need a fine line and nothing can cross it. I believe the rule is that no sharp objects that could be used for cutting are allowed on the plane anymore. They used to allow a blade of no more than 4" and the terrorists came on board with box cutters that had much smaller blades than that. Who would EVER have thought about anyone taking down a plane with a box cutter. It's true that they will never completely eliminate the risk of a hijacking or bomb but I, for one, am happy that they are reducing the risk significantly. I hope that they agressively continue to pursue more security so that I am safer when I fly. If you have to travel with a cigar cutter, box cutter, straight razor, etc. then check it in. Airlines still offer free bag checking. It seems like everyone is all about security as long as it doesn't inconvenience them. Well, it can't be had both ways - apparently we are living in different times. I just read an article about the hijackers and how part of what helped them succeed is that they melded into our society. Nobody even looked twice at them. It could be anyone on board, it doesn't have to be a middle eastern, single man traveling one way on a first class ticket.

[This message has been edited by AS Flyer (edited 11-28-2001).]

My personal favorite is the old lady at EWR who, after being hobbled on cane out of her wheelchair, was forced to retreat to her wheelchair in order to take off her shoes to put through the X-Ray machine.

This babe might not have been able to walk worth her cane stuck in doggy-doo, but man, I'll bet she could've driven her stilettos right through the reinforced cockpit door with that southpaw she was a-wieldin'. If only her wheelchair didn't creak so much while she was gliding it ever so stealthily, closer and closer and closer to that forbidden door...

[This message has been edited by ETOPS01 (edited 11-28-2001).]

AS Flyer, you're just like every single person they interview at the airport and put on TV. None of them complain. They don't mind being inconvenienced as long as they feel safer. You're a wonderful citizen and should be proud for playing along. Well, it's a load! The networks won't show guys like me. I do mind waiting in line. I do mind having ridiculous items confiscated. I do mind the coming security related taxes. Like the taxes aren't enough already. Those planes weren't taken over because of sharp objects. They were taken over because before 9/11 we were supposed to cooperate if we wanted to be let go unharmed. A ball point pen is more dangerous than most of the items being confiscated, especially a cigar cutter. How crazy and paranoid should we get? I don't think anybody's taking over a plane again with a paperclip or even a sword. I'm also not going to bend over and say thank you for the three hour line. All that does is give the airlines another excuse to cut more staff and make more money. I want real safety, not window dressing.

[This message has been edited by DerekAZ (edited 11-28-2001).]

Well I for one do not believe for a minute that the highjackers took their knives through security. First of all box knives were found taped under seats on other planes (looks like cleaners or food service people to me) and, secondly, why would they risk their life's work on the outside chance that they might get caught with a box knife.

What they should be looking at a lot more carefully are people who buy one-way first class tickets and hold passports from countries known to harbor terrorists. There are no secrets to El Al's success.

I do not, BTW, think that the skies are one bit safer because someone managed to confiscate my 1" safety pin, my sewing kit, my corkscrew, my tweezers or my metal comb.

[This message has been edited by Punki (edited 11-28-2001).]

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[This message has been edited by Mountain Trader (edited 11-28-2001).]

SF Joe-

Boy, are we sorry.

Sorry first about your cigar cutter. That must be a real heartbreaker, and to have it taken by some minimum wage person. Gee!

Sorry that on September 12 they didn't have an iron-clad new security system that would ferret out the risk and not inconvenience you and me.

Sorry that it may take mistakes-hey, it may take lot of them-to get this right. What a Gyp! Of course, it took almost 3 years to get from Pearl Harbor to D-Day but they didn't pay our high tax rate, did they?

I'm sure the most sorry are the widows, widowers and orphans of the Sept 11 attacks, who would give up ciagr cutters and just about anything else to try-not assure because life has no assurances-but just try, to avoid another loss of life.

Sorry to ask for a little sacrifice and to put up with a learning curve.

Sorry you were put out.

Sorry indeed.

Punki,
You don't know me but I could kiss you. Err.. Hunki might get mad though, so I'll settle for a firm handshake and a "TELL IT SISTAH!"

Regards,
-Bouncer-

Mountain you missed the point.

You cannot find me a case where anyone has ever been murdered or robbed or hijacked with a cigar clipper. More people have been killed with belts and pens. The FAA does NOT list them as weapons. He made it through MULTIPLE security checkpoints at different airports intact.

Only to get suddenly told that all of a sudden that at this airport it's apparently a weapon of mass destruction and a *REAL* threat to the safety of the passengers and the security of the aircraft. That's WHY it is a prohibited item. It is a real, credible, threat/weapon. Apprently not at his other connections though. :/

The inconsistency in what is and isn't allowed is staggering. It's a game of roulette. It leads to confusion, and ultimately a lack of confidence in the system for it's utter lack of stability and continuity.

I could do more damage in less time with the GLASS they HANDED me in First Class.

Regards,
-Bouncer-

[This message has been edited by Bouncer (edited 11-28-2001).]

Prior to 9/11 you would never have found a case of an airplane being hijacked with a box cutter. And prior to 9/11 they were perfectly legal to bring on board. Maybe they did tape them to the undersides of the seats, though we don't know that for sure. What we do know is that they didn't have to sneak them on board if they didn't want to because they were not prohibited from being brought on board. I could have walked on with a small hunting knife and not been looked at twice.

Perhaps profiling people is the way to go but so far, domestically, we don't do that. In fact, they don't do that in any European country on a domestic flight either. One doesn't need a passport to travel from Manchester, UK to Leeds, UK. Or from Lyon, France to Paris, France. I guarantee you though, that when the government starts requiring a passport for domestic travel the same people complaining now will be complaining then. A bunch of armchair athletes. Everyone has it all figured out, somehow, but those in charge. I don't agree with everything the government does, nor do I agree that all the current security measures are adequate or appropriate. I do think that given all of the circumstances I certainly couldn't do any better. And I don't think any one of you could either. If you all are experienced travelers then you all know that anything that could be considered a cutting device is prohibited, don't bring it. What do you need a corkscrew in your carry-on for anyway? Check it in.

Bouncer-

No, You missed the point.

They're trying to make our joke of a security system safer in the face of a serious national threat that has killed 3,000 to 4,000 people.

They will make mistakes. And they will take stuff like SF Joe's cigar cutter-it's stupid events like that which evidenced that we needed some new rules and new people enforcing them .

So for a while our lives will likely be a little less convenient. And maybe, just maybe, a little safer one day. If we're lucky.

Then stop BSing around with feel good initiatives like siezing nail clippers and DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE!!!

We will NOT have security until we begin focusing on the real threats in a meaningful manner. Nail clippers and cigar clippers aren't a mistake. They're a *smokescreen* for a system that is well and truly fouled up beyond ALL recognition.

"BAN IT! IT MIGHT COULD BE A WEAPON SOMEHOW!!!" is NOT a coherent approach to anything.

CEASE focusing on grandma's in wheelchairs.
CEASE focusing on cigar clippers.
CEASE focusing on supposed random searches that are neither random nor searches.

We know what the terrorist profile is.
A erson buying first class or one way tickets at the last minute or in cash.
Non-Citizen from a country known to support terrorism or with a heavy foreign accent.
Arabic individuals.

Any one of these is a small flag, add them together and you get a larger flag. Wasting one second on some older invalid lady in a wheelchair is just plain dumb. Wasting time on others with an indepth search for needle and thread is pure foolishness.

Stop wasting our time.

And stop pretending that 9/11 could happen again. It really couldn't. And we all know that. And we all know why.

Not because of ANYTHING that's been done by the government. That's a laugh. No, it won't happen again because the passengers are NOT going to LET one or two people try and take over the aircraft. The passive response is gone. Instead they will pound the would be hijackers into goo. I know it, you know it, and everyone on the board knows it. We've all sat in the seats and figured out what we're gonna do.

I dunno about you but relying on the intrepid cigar cutter seizures isn't any part of MY plan.

Regards,
-Bouncer-

Well said Bouncer. I was going to counter AS Flyer's failed reasoning but really everything has now been said.
The following is a short list off the top of my head of things that can be used to hijack a plane more easily than cigar cutters, nail clippers or even box cutters (although a hijacking is now near impossible now that we are wise to the true purpose):

carry on luggage handles
some shoes and boots
collapsable roller doodads
pens
pencils
computers (heavy, blunt objects)
cell phones
some heavy jewlery (rings, chanins)
rolled up sky mall magazines
forks (non-plastic)
human feet
human legs
human hands
human fingers
human teeth
beverage glasses
keys
canes
seat belts (swinging that demo seatbelt extention around will make an extremely effective weapon)
pant belts (same reason)