Yeah, but World Points requires you to make phone calls to redeem your points, and you are always pretty much boxed in to about a 1.5% maximum reward on your money - and that is only if you play by their most restrictive rules (21-day advance, Saturday night stay, etc.). And unless you are flying an unusual citypair that is extremely expensive, those tickets are already cheap.

If your goal is to get free domestic tickets, why not just get the Fidelity card (1.5% cash) and buy the tickets online at the airline site, earning even more miles, with more flexibility, and earning money on your investment if you don't happen to need plane tickets immediately? (Note: there may be a better rebate card out there, I just happened to find the Fidelity card. It is also issued by MBNA, just like Worldpoints.)

Of course, if you know your goal is to actually travel, you can't beat the SPG Amex.

My question: if you are already boxed in on the value of the ticket, why do they have all of the other restrictions? If I can only have a $400 ticket, why force a Saturday night stay on me, force me to stay in the 48 continental states, or force me to buy 21 days out? If I find a ticket leaving MCI tomorrow, going to Zimbabwe, round-trip in first class, coming back Wednesday, for $400 all in, why can't I have it for 20k or 25k or whatever? There are too many strings with all of these cards - if I was done with the FF game, I'd much rather have 1.5 cents in a Fidelity fund now than a half-promise that I might get 1.5 cents or 1 cent or a half cent or whatever the program promises in free travel sometime down the road.

pinniped - Air NZ Airpoints goes some way towards that, although only on NZ operated flights so far. Any seat that you can buy with cash you can also buy with airpoints dollars (their new currency which replaced points). However it isnt quite what the OP is wanting, since if only high fares left when you book then it also costs a lot of airpoints dollars.

I agree.

What was the question again - 'can I redeem a free miles seat to Boston on Saturday May 13'?

Heck most FF members do not even understand how that one works. @:-)

I think its pretty safe to assume that most, if not all INTL. J seating configs have at least 12 J seats.

By focusing 'Maverick awards' ONLY on flights that are 25-50% unsold in J and ONLY for 3-6 awards per routing, the goal is to keep it MANAGEABLE for the airlines to implement the day of departure re-accomodation (if its necessary).

By opening up all J inventory on any flight, the reaccomodation logistics will, I fear, add up too fast.

Really, the 'Maverick award' is in fact, a slow rollout/interim test of what you are suggesting. If 'Maverick award' are workable, then maybe FFPs could consider ramping up to your idea over time.

That's kind of the point here...once all of the crazy contingencies that FFPs use as pretexts NOT to open seats are exhausted, and there's STILL 25-50% of an empty J cabin 7 days out, that's the time to release to us the basically 'conditional' award tickets.

there's quite a few things that are not being addressed here:

- space in J that the Federal Sky Marshal program takes from inventory as last minute. Usually 2 J per flight, last minute and almost all desirable destinations.

- Block space where partner has ownership of partial inventory making it look unsold, but responsibility of the partner, not first access of the airline.

Two things - the industry needs to re-educate us that the "double miles" award that some of us seem to get hung up on is really not double miles. It is the standard award. When programs invented some 25 years ago, the no capacity controls award was never referred to as "double miles." Reality is that the saver awards are just that - something on sale with limited quantities apply. Just like a store, great if they have any left, shop another store to see if they have any left (alliance partners) but if not any sale stuff left in our size, we either purchase stuff that's not on sale (trying to remember if i think that Target or Dillard's or Macy's charges double money for things not on sale?

Now, I do think the industry has failed bad in their communication of what is available and what is not. But that is also free competition. I'd say even here on FlyerTalk that some airlines are clearly better than others when it comes to award redemption. What would actually resolve this is for an airline to step forward and actually say that we are reserving 10% of available seats or minimum of 10 Saver awards per flight each and every day. At least we would all know that there is a chance we can get a Saver award with planning, etc. If we can't then get it, well, we then can't say they didn't offer it which is what some are saying today.

I'd be comfortable with any airline that established a bottom line for Saver redemption and then knowing the other seats were available for the standard award. Problem already is that some airlines don't make all seats available even for Anytime awards. As some of us know, it's the inconsistency of terms and availability that drives us wild.

I'm just trying to fit in a few comments on a busy Monday but will re-read the Maverick idea and post better comments later on.

Bottom line: points for thinking.....

Randy:

In connection with your reply to the thread, in part, as follows:

What would actually resolve this is for an airline to step forward and actually say that we are reserving 10% of available seats or minimum of 10 Saver awards per flight each and every day

What I wouuld say is that the airlines are starving FF're based on revenue capacity as opposed to what they should be doing. They should be living up to their committments to provide what was, at one time, an unique program to Frequent Ffyers.

You know this don't ya! The business of Frequent flyerdom is a contingency busness that may, from time to time, be manipulated!

Please advise!!!

(negotiator)

I do understand and am certainly not that happy about parts of the business. That is why i call for a floor on Saver awards so that part cannot be manipulated. As for their commitment, overall they haven't done too bad a job - heck, there were nearly 30 million free awards passed out last year. Now, i don't know what the overall demand would be without limits, but despite some of the cynics that declare no one can ever use their miles, the facts seem to indicate that some of us are doing quite well.

As for manipulation, are you referring to FlyerTalkers or the airlines? HA! One would have to be blind to not see that FlyerTalk has evened out the tables and crated hundreds of millions of extra miles that easily go into most members pockets when they might need to use a "double miles" award. But I agree that is not the way this should be.

Campaigning for setting realistic floors for redemption should be viewed as quite reasonable.

I love the idea of innovation in the airline industry (it needs it badly), so I appreciate the OP's efforts to try something new. Still, I see a big problem with the approach.

From the airlines' perspective, the Maverick awards (have you registered this trademark?) stand a good chance of affecting high revenue customer behavior. If you are at the margins of whether to pay for J, as many businesses are, then any new program that promises to increase the likelihood of getting into J on an award or a mileage upgrade tilts the decision away from paid J. Given how expensive paid J is (even with corporate discount), it wouldn't take too much tilting to make Maverick awards a revenue reduction airline nightmare.

Randy, please, enough is enough with the "double miles award is not really double miles" and that double miles awards are "the standard award". You seem to be sounding this refrain more and more lately and this doesn't play well in Peoria or even here on FlyerTalk. The vast majority of FlyerTalkers will not pay 2X miles for awards, whether capacity controlled or not, except in the most extreme conditions such as last minute, have to get there travel.

The airlines have a very long road ahead of them if they intend to make 2X miles the "standard". And the biggest problem isn't even the perception that 2X miles is too much. The biggest problem is that almost no one values miles at 2.0+ cents any more.....that is "old thinking" that even most novices here on FlyerTalk realize is outdated. With credit card and other non-BIS miles making up more than 50% of mileage earned, 2X miles translates to value of less than 1.0 cent per mile. At those rates, the mileage house of cards comes tumbling down as I suspect most people will move from a mileage earning credit card to the now ubiquitous 1% cash back cards. That will put a permanent dent in the revenue and profits the airlines now enjoy from mileage sales, leading to additional cutbacks in award seats, basically the beginning of a never-ending death spiral.

You bring up another intriguing issue!!!

Using DL and Skyteam as an example. If all of the DL FFP award seats are sold out, why doesn't DL tell us WHICH partners have HOW MANY award seats allocated, but unredeemed on a given flight.

Even that tidbit of information would go a long way. If I knew that there were 2 award seats allocated, but unredeemed by NW on a DL flight, I could contact my NW friends for a trade (or um, a gift!!).

Randy, is it unreasonable for the FFPs to to provide such TRANSPARENCY about partner award allocations????

dhuey, thank you for your keen observations.

First and foremost, 'Maverick awards' would only be triggered IF and its a big IF, 7 days prior to departure, a J cabin is less than 50% sold (6 award seats released) or 75% sold (3 award seats released).

So, I would imagine that 'Maverick awards' would be available as follows:

Not Very Often
- major trunk (hub to hub) intl. routes like NYC-LHR/CDG/FRA or LAX-NRT/HKG
- routes with not so much nonstop competition like LAX-SYD/AKL or NYC-JNB/TLV

More Often
- intl. flights originating from smaller US O/D airports: MSP, CVG, PHL, DTW, CLT, IAH
- intl flights arriving into smaller intl. markets: MAN, DUS, VCE, BRU, CPH, KIX, NGO, VIE,

Very Often
- leisure destinations: HNL, MXP, FCO, SJO, GEG, Caribbean

For a 'business at the margins' of buying a J seat, there is still a reasonable amount of uncertainty that would balance the advantages vs. disadvantages of a 'Maverick award':

1. Desired flight must qualify for releasing 'Maverick award' 7 days out.
2. If 'Maverick award' seats are indeed released at 7 day window, must be quick on the draw to secure them ; remember there's only 3-6 seats total!
3. Member must be top-tier of their program to qualify for 'Maverick award'.
4. Member must have a pretty flexible boss or client to risk possibly arriving at final destinations many hours or even a day later based on re-accomodation options, if flight oversold with revenue pax or Federal Marshals or partner award allocation redemptions by departure day.

I think all of those issues combined will keep 'Maverick awards' confined to a relatively narrow group of top-tier members who value the opportunity for a J seat and have the flexibility to tough it out if re-accomodated. I would be surprised if company travel policies were revised to target 'Maverick awards' on a largescale basis.

I don't understand what is wrong with calling a spade a spade in this instance. You can call it anything you want, but if it ain't available (the old standard awards) they just ain't available. It's like advertising a stereo or something on sale but never making them available for sale. If you can't but it, what's the point?

I guess I would like to say "and?" to that. There's no difference in the value of an award if the value of a FF mile is $0.02 and the "accessible" award is 25,000 miles or if the value of a FF mile is $0.01 and the "accessible" award is 50,000 miles. I use the quotes because it doesn't matter what you call it --it's like an airline advertising the fare but not the taxes. I don't care what the FARE itself is, I care what gets charged to my CC. End result of the math is that the value of the trip is $500.00. In neither case would I part with miles for a domestic ticket because I can almost always buy a revenue ticket for significantly less.

Before I was an elite, NW allowed upgrades on cheap fares for everybody. I thought that was a great use of my miles. Since '98, when I first enrolled in WP, I have NEVER felt that an advanced purchase coach ticket was a good use of my miles. Part of the problem is that you have to calculate the value of the miles NOT earned in the costs of the trip. On some trips, it's insignificant, on others, it can add up.

I'm not a student of the HISTORY of FF programs so I don't know what came first -- the chicken or the egg (Did the "price" of an award ticket go up or the flooding of the market with miles?). The PEOPLE that matter MOST to the airlines are those that generate significant revenue... IOW elites. To keep the elites happy wrt the "false advertising," they've multiplied the number of miles they give you for being a loyal customer. The net result is that the most loyal customers suffered no decrease in the "value" of their flying. As much as the flooding of non-flying miles has lowered the value of said miles, I can't fault the airlines' response to their bread and butter customers.