sheremetyevo

I recently discovered that my humble Bank of America Platinum Plus Worldpoints card has no foreign transaction fee. They eliminated the fee sometime in the past month or two.

(And, no, I'm not confusing this with the Global ATM Alliance. I do mean that when I charge things on my credit card---say, French train tickets---there is no foreign exchange surcharge.)

All it earns is lousy, worthless Worldpoints, but on the upside there is no annual fee and decent customer service.

aragno

What about someone like me that does about 40-50k in overseas transactions?

I have a Chase Sapphire Preferred card on it's way, so at least I will be getting something in the short term but seeking the best card.

sthubbar

aragno,

I recently started a new thread asking almost the same thing (I didn't notice this thread). For some reason the post got moved three levels down in a less active forum. Here is the post, hope I don't get banned for double posting.


Hi,

New to flyertalk and appreciate all the great information.

What is the best credit card for someone living abroad? In particular taking into account foreign exchange fees (forex).

After finding great info here, I have applied for the following cards:

SPG Amex (approved) 2.7% Forex - 25k points deal
Chase Sapphire Preferred (approved) 0% Forex - 50k points deal
Capital One Venture Rewards (pending) 0% Forex - 25k points deal

I am traveling about 4 nights per week staying in the Sheraton and am currently Starwood Platinum.

According to my calculations it is worth satisfying the requirements for all 3 cards to get the bonus points, so my question is after the bonus points are qualified, which of these 3 is best for long-term, or is there a different one recommended?

Let's say I spend $50k / year and $30k / year of that is in an SPG hotel and it is 100% overseas. Let's also assume the currency exchange rate for all 3 cards is the same. At the end of one year, I would have the following points and charges:

SPG Amex: 170,000 SPG pts - $1,440.00 Forex and annual fee
Chase Sapphire Pref: 90,000 SPG pts, 53,500 Chase pts - $0 No Forex or annual fee
Capital One Vent Reward - 90,000 SPG pts, 100,000 Cap1 pts - $59 Annual fee no Forex

The first analysis for me would be to compare Chase and Cap1. The difference is 53,500 Chase points versus 100,000 Capital One points. Are Chase points twice as valuable as Capital one points minus the annual fee?

Then once selected between those two, let's say we pick Capital one. Are the extra 100,000 Cap points more valuable than 80,000 SPG points minus $1,440 in fees?

Thanks.

ANC RED-EYE

Well, I know you wanted to choose between the Chase and CapitalOne first...I don't know that I can help you there. However, I think it is pretty easy to say the SPG is out...

it's going to be hard to recover a 2.7% forex fees - negating the value of the points earned. For instance, comparing the SPG and Capital one:

90K SPG points aside, as those are earned based solely on the hotel stay, regardless of credit card:

SPG: 80,000 SPG points costing $1440 in fees - those points cost you 1.8 cents each...
Chase: 53,500 points for free; even if the chase points aren't as valuable, I doubt the SPG points are worth enough to offset the fee.

sthubbar

Thanks for the response. I calculate it a little different.

53,500 points = $535 so I look to solve the following

80,000 SPG pts * $/SPG pts - $1440 > $535

If I value SPG pts at $0.025 or greater than the SPG points are better. I read on here that many people value SPG pts at $0.05 or greater. If they are valued at $0.05 than:

80,000 * $0.05 - $1440 = $2560 additional value over Chase

Do you agree?

inY

Citation? Visa or Mastercard?

Phasers

I'm really not following your math here, but assuming a 2.7% fee on all foreign transactions with the SPG card, I would safely toss that card out of the mix.

Personally I think the sapphire preferred card is the better deal, as you get 50k points for free to sign up, and 1 points per dollar spent, as well as a .07 point bonus at the end of the year (so effectively 1.07 pts/$$).

But I think it all boils down to what you're gonna use the points for. Sapphire Preferred transfers 1:1 into CO and BA, after the annual bonus, the effective rate is 1:1.07 whereas SPG transfers 2:1 into CO/UA and 1:1 into BA/AA. For every 20k points you transfer SPG gives a 5k bonus, so the effective ratio is 2:1.25 for CO/UA and 1:1.25 for BA/AA.

All SPG transfers are listed here by the way:

http://www.starwoodhotels.com/prefer...tner_list.html

Now assuming that you're gonna go the BA route for the sake of comparision, Sapphire gives 1.07 miles per dollar, whereas SPG gives 1.25 miles per dollar. The difference is .18 miles per dollar under optimum conditions. However, SPg charges a 2.7% fee on top of this. So basically, bonuses aside, for $20k spend your break down is:

Sapphire: 21,400 miles, $0 foreign transaction fees
SPG Amex: 25,000 miles, $540 fees.

personally there is no way in hell that 3,600 miles is worth $540 in fees so that is why I would not give a second look to the SPG card and would rule it out immediately.


EDIT: Now I missed the part about you staying at SPG properties for $30k/yr. As SPG platinum you STILL get 3 spg points/$$ spent regardless of how you pay. But by paying with your SPG Amex, you would get 1 extra point per dollar. So basically what you have to decide is if 30,000 extra SPG points is worth spending an extra $810 ($30,000 * 2.7% Forex fee). In my opinion, no it is not. But if you value them at $.05 then it would be to you. But again, look at how you are going to SPEND THE POINTS and decide. If transferring to CO, then there is no way that SPG will ever be worth it.

anngi

I'm out of the country 8-10 months a year and after having the Capital One Venture card for around 5 months am very happy with it. It didn't hurt I was able to match my AA miles with it. I also like choosing the charges I want credited instead of having to deal with points. I have stopped using my spg AMEX all together. The first year is free but I'm planning on renewing it.

sthubbar

Phasers,

Thanks for the continued detailed analysis. I'm having fun playing with this while and this is FlyerTalk, so I think it is acceptable to continue on with the advanced math.

I still think we aren't comparing apples to apples. When you say the additional 30,000 points is work $810, you are assuming the other points are equal in value, when they aren't. Here is a further analysis, using your BA conversion to make all points equal.

Chase total BA points = 166,000
90,000 SPG points * 1.25 = 112,500 BA pts
50,000 Chase pts * 1.07 = 53,500 BA pts

SPG total BA points = 212,500
90,000 SPG points * 1.25 = 112,500 BA pts
50,000 SPG points * 1.25 = 62,500 BA pts
30,000 SPG points * 1.25 = 37,500 BA pts

So SPG is worth 46,500 more BA points than Chase. The cost of these points is $1,440, so $0.031 per point. I understand this to be expensive, though not over the top, like $0.06 per point.

You are right that it will depend on how I use the points.

Thanks for all the fun.

Phasers

Have you considered splitting between the two?

Perhaps all your SPG property purchases go on the SPG Amex, whereas everything else goes on the Chase Sapphire. It would break down as follows:

SPG Amex ($30k spend at SPG Properties since you effectively get 2 pts/$$):
150k spg (90k for stays, 30k for spend, 30k bonus for spg spend) = 185k BA miles (140k * 1.25 and then transfer the other 10k at 1:1 or save and transfer later when you have another 10k to add to it). And a cost of $810. Assuming you wait til you have another 10k, we can say this method earns you 187,500 BA miles.

Chase Sapphire ($20k spend):
20k pts * 1.07 = 21,400 BA miles.

This way you net a total of 206,400 to 208,900 miles for a total expense of $810. I don't think the last 3,600 to 6,100 miles are worth the extra $630. I'm sure you would agree there.

sthubbar

Ok, so I'll accept the suggestion of putting all Starwood property expenses on the SPG Amex card and all other foreign expenses on a 0% Forex card.

So, between the two 0% Forex cards that I have Chase Sapphire Preferred and the Capital One Venture Rewards card, which do we think is preferred?

The Chase card is 1.07 point per $ and the Capital one is 2 points per $. If all points are equal than the Capital one seems preferred, at least after about $6,344 of spending to offset the $59 annual fee.

Do you agree that the Capital One card would be preferred?

aragno

I don't think I could put same value on C1 miles as Sapphire point converted to CO miles as I use miles to redeem for business/first class tix between Asia and North America- thus value per mile is higher than if I used for Economy domestic tix. Unless the C1 points easily convert to international business class tix originating in Singapore. Am I correct in this assumption? I will go for a C1 when/if they bring back a mileage matching promotion or similar.

Looks like I should stick to my Chase for now. An AMEX Plat might be nice but we typically fly business everywhere so little value for lounge access. Are the points earned through AMEX "better" than Chase points if converting to CO or AA miles in terms of higher Conversion ratio?

uoficowboy

I have an AAdvantage Visa. I'm starting to get tired of all the little foreign transaction fees they add on to my statement. I tend to be able to call them and complain and they'll remove them - but I'm getting tired of it. So it's time to ditch them and get one that doesn't rip me off. I've already gotten my 100K miles from them.

I have very good credit, and would be surprised if any card turned me down. I haven't churned cards (haven't really had the chance - just got into the miles game last November!)

I'm mostly collecting AA, DL, and UA miles right now - but if there's something better I'd be all ears.

Looks like my two options are probably the BA Visa (but the current offer is only 50K miles, not the 100K it was earlier) or the Chase Saphire Preferred card (which gets you 50K points, and I guess you can do 12K points -> 10K UA miles). Both I think have annual fees, but I think both are waived for the first year.

Any suggestions?

michael_v

Amex points may be better in the sense that Amex runs bonus points promotions for transfers to certain airlines. For example, 50% bonus is going on right now for transfering to Delta (only first-time transfers) and BA.

sdsearch

Right above your post is a thread with many pages of suggestions:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles...-exchange.html

In brief, besides true no annual fee, I'd say also look at hotel cards with no "net" annual fee: For example, the Chase Priority Club Select Visa has no annual fee first year but $49 a year after that, but that's more than offset by an annual free night certificate (starting a year in). If you can't get more than $49 value out of Priority Club free night certificate (say, because you have endless points in other hotel programs already) then maybe this wouldn't work for you, but for me it makes it "feel" like a no annual fee 0% forex card. And for me, who always needs hotels on points, earning hotel points is at signficantly more valabuable than a 1.25 cashback (what you get from, say, the C1 Venture no annual fee version). But that all depends on how you redeem, of course.

There's also a 0% forex fee card for Hyatt (also from Chase) but I know llittle about that.