IMHO... now THIS is a BUZZ topic! (Explaining in a moment)

Maybe we discussed this before, but with all of these promos, the HIlton fast track to gold and Northwest's 10K bonus miles program.

But my concern is the dillusion of the elite levels of the programs. SO many golds or other higher elites fighting it out for upgrades and benefits.

Maybe what the programs should do is do two levels.

For example, let's take HIlton.

1. One gold preferred level, which will be for those HHonors members who earned gold through stays in the previous year.

2. Regular gold for those who earned through special promos.

This can be also for other programs.

Any views?

And again, this is no attack on the HHonors Fast Track. (I earned HHonors Gold through stays last year.)

Now I think a BUZZ topic is something general where you look at several issues or problems.

Like this thread.

Catman, while I agree that the comping of status in some cases (i.e. Hilton Gold) has gotten out of line, I don't believe having two distinct Gold levels is the answer. I don't see how this is workable from the customer's point of view or assists the airlines/hotels in achieving their aims (more business). To dangle a carrot like Gold status in front of guests, and then turn around and say they won't receive the same benefits as "true" Golds doesn't make for an effective marketing campaign and certainly wouldn't satisfy most people.

I am not as strongly against comping as others on these boards might be. Comping status only impacts the "true Gold" if the comped people log numerous stays and thus are able to avail themselves of the benefits. If you comp a group of say 100 people to Gold, many of them will make a few stays and some may never even stay at all. Only a small number will make a significant number of stays and these are the folks Hilton wanted to get in the first place. Its true that excessive comping will erode the benefits of others....its a real balancing act for the airlines/hotels, I guess.

Elite programs are meant to increase the perceived value of services to customers who provide large chunks of revenue, not increase frustration, which is what program dilution is doing. I do not believe that socialization and rank-expansion of these programs will increase short- and long-term earnings. If anything, we may see the opposite effect.

I can't comment much about U.S. frequent guest programs, but I can say that most of the better Asian programs are holding the line. In terms of airline elite programs, such as UA MP, IMHO they are blurring the line between their lo/no-rev pax and their top flyers beyond distinction.

I would like to see a return towards simplicity, as was the norm back there in the good old days, like last year. As in many other areas, again IMHO, the KISS principle applies here.

See similar discussions underway in the Hilton forum: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum57/HTML/001222.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum57/HTML/000962.html

I personally believe that these elite comps are just an indication that the emphasis of many frequent flyer/stay programs is shifting from rewarding loyalty to attracting new customers.

[This message has been edited by cactuspete (edited 02-16-2001).]

We tend to think of these elite programs as something ones earns, like Boy Scout Badges.

The airlines and hotels have always thought of these as marketing tools.

Example: On the Delta forum, a number of people noted that they tried to get Delta to comp them to a higher level when they were very close to the mileage thresholds. No luck. Delta knows these are loyal customers.

But a number of people who had sharp drops in mileage from previous elite levels were nonetheless comped (without asking) to Silver, Gold and even Platinum. Why? Delta probably feared they were going to the competition.

I concur; Hilton properties in particular seem to have difficulty in comprehending their own product and often appear unable to consistently provide their guests with perks appropriate to their respective tiers.

While agree that hotel chains and airlines use the elite levels as a marketing tool, what I don't see happening is the customer service from the hotel chains and airlines towards their elites.

It used to be that if you had elite status, especially top tier status that you were recognized as a loyal and valued customer. I don't see that happening in what I read on the boards and through my own personal experiences. It's becoming the exception instead of the rule.

[This message has been edited by toadman (edited 02-21-2001).]

I disagree with a Gold and Preferred Gold. Too confusing. If they need distictions, have more levels (some for comps) such as Tin, Bronze, Silver, Gold, and Platinum. But then it gets too hard to make much difference from one level to another AND more complex for hotel employees to know who gets what.

I think airlines, hotels, etc. do need a "tool" to get those using competitor's products to switch. But I think the best way is like AA does (or did last year): Have a challenge. e.g.: Stay 7 nights in the next 60 days and we will give your Gold.

OR (to gain frequent travelers): If you are Gold with Hotel chain X, we will make you gold in our program AFTER you stay 6 nights in the next 60 days and also give you 5,000 bonus points. But do not comp the top status level (Platinum /diamond, etc.). Airlines could do same with 10 segments in 60 days.

Although this also waters down status a little, it does not give free status to many who travel only 10 - 15 days a year, which the programs are not really shooting for anyway. And if SPG Gold switch to HH Gold and vice versa, we really don't add too much to the total numbers competing for Gold benefits.

Catman - I agree that excessive fast tracking/challenge programs dilute elite levels. I am a firm believer in revenue guidelines for these sort of programs ala AA.
Just wondering - would you support UA traeting 100 K 1k members different from 84k 1k members ? - kazman

with technology getting better, i can see the day when revenue is the factor rather than stays or miles. i flew 180,000 miles last year for about $20,000. this year i can possibly fly 240,000 miles for about $16,000 if the prices hold and i can plan ahead and get advance tickets. on the other hand, i could spend $2,000 - $3,000 for each round trip to fly in coach if i buy the day before.

obviously, i am the more desireable customer for the airline if i fly on short notice and price is not a consideration, but if i only flew 10 times a year on trans-con flights, then i would only get 50,000 miles for $25,000 rather than 240,000 miles for $15,000.

so the day will come when revenue is the determining factor if they can get away with it

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f

Catman
I agree with you about the Lost value of GOLD with HH, I too have earned my HH GOld last year. I too have signed for this year's FastTrack, however i am not in it for the Gold because I know for a fact that I will make it on my own, i am in it for the Points

Anyhow, one thing i think is unfair is about Stays. You need 4 Stays and one stay is check-in-->Check-out. Well I can't do that, I usually stay for at least 10 days at a time, not sure what is the difference between Stay and Nights, to me they should be the same.

Anyhow, the Preferred GOld and GOld is kind of confusing why doesn't HH just do the Fast Track to Silver and give out these points??



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Al

I am a Chairmans Preffered level on USAirways and I try to stay at Marriott properties whenever possible to maximize my Marriott points (Marriott's 200,000 point award is the best).

Hilton however sent me a comp gold card, (I think the may offer them to all USAir CHPR) because they recognize that I spend a lot of nights in hotels and they need to schmooz me for my business.

The result is that I still try to stay at Merriott whenever possible but Hilton is my second choice when Marriott is unavailable or in convenient. So Marriott's program does what they want it to do, it keeps me loyal to their brand. And Hilton who recognized me as a valuable source or revenue managed to get a share of thet revenue that they would not have gotten if they hat not comped me to Gold.... and Hilton has the Diamond status to reognize their truly loyal guests.

[This message has been edited by LikeItUpFront (edited 02-16-2001).]

Lighten up, guys. These promos are not diluting the value of status because they're only for a limited time, and the recipients still have to requalify under the normal criteria. The posers will wash out soon enough.

This is far different from "because I work for Company X, I have Premier Executive status as long as I remain in their employ, even if I only fly United once a year." That's dilution.

AA-style challenge promotions aren't going to work with me. On the other hand, an envelope containing a Platinum card and (at least) 4 VIP2s could be extremely persuasive. But I have to be predisposed to consider switching. I had such an unbelievably bad experience at the Seattle Sheraton a few years ago that I walked away from all my accumulated points, I will go out of my way to never stay at another Starwood property again, and even an offer of "Preferred Guest Platinum status through 2099" isn't likely to win me back.

Yes, I am participating in a Hilton conquest promotion. No, that is not how I obtained my Gold status. However, they are getting a lot more revenue out of me as a result of various promotions, and there's no question they're getting business that otherwise would have gone to another major hotel chain. They still need to work for my loyalty, but at least they don't have to worry about me going over to Starwood any time soon.

dillusion = dilution + disillusion ?

= delude