Infants in First Class
Jan 9, 2001 | 8:32 am
#62
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 234
Fear no more. A380 is coming to the rescue. If you rich SOB wants peace and quite, check in into one of the flying presidential siute, complete with private maid (FA), jacuzzi, king size bed, and most important of all, sound prof (+ noice cancelling) wall.
Ofcause you need a large nose to pay through.
Ofcause you need a large nose to pay through.
Jan 9, 2001 | 10:00 am
#63
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Don't know....
Programs: BA LTG, SQ TPPS, CX DMP, AA EXP, Bonvoy LTT, ALL PLT, Hilton DM
Posts: 4,035
Originally posted by Spider:
Bagold,
I am not sure what plane you flew but on the vast majority of QF 747-s after the last row of biz (row 27) there is the galley, stairs to the upper deck and several toilets which would roughly be about maybe 20-25 feet. With 2 curtains and background noise it is not easy to hear the noise coming from the coach section. I have been in row 27 several times and have had a nice and restful sleep just about always.
Bagold,
I am not sure what plane you flew but on the vast majority of QF 747-s after the last row of biz (row 27) there is the galley, stairs to the upper deck and several toilets which would roughly be about maybe 20-25 feet. With 2 curtains and background noise it is not easy to hear the noise coming from the coach section. I have been in row 27 several times and have had a nice and restful sleep just about always.
The one I flew on had 3 extra rows of business after the galley and then economy. I think economy started on row 35 but cannot remember exactly.
Jan 9, 2001 | 10:25 am
#64
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,709
BoSox
[quote]
A screaming child in FC gives maybe some pleasure to the parent(s), but diminishes the pleasure of others.
[quote]
A screaming child NEVER gives pleasure to the parents. TRUST me on this one.
If you read many of the stories, you find that most problems are caused not by the children, but by the breeders.
Keeping a child from going beserk is not hard - but it does require attention. This weekend when we drove the 2 hours to visit my mom, the girls fell asleep pretty quickly, but Patrick was wide awake and starting to get irritable.
So to keep Patrick quiet, we sang... and sang... and sang... and sang... and sang...
While singing the Winnie the Pooh song is fun and cute, after 90 minutes of singing, you want fly down to Disney World and detonate an atomic weapon.
However Patrick was fine for the trip, and we had a scream-free ride.
Were this trip on a plane, who's to say whether this would have worked, but have a little sympathy for the parents who are trying their best to keep the child entertained. As any parent will tell you, the term "control your child" is a joke. You can't control children, you can only hope to redirect them, and despite our best efforts, that doesn't always work.
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"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
[quote]
A screaming child in FC gives maybe some pleasure to the parent(s), but diminishes the pleasure of others.
[quote]
A screaming child NEVER gives pleasure to the parents. TRUST me on this one.
If you read many of the stories, you find that most problems are caused not by the children, but by the breeders.
Keeping a child from going beserk is not hard - but it does require attention. This weekend when we drove the 2 hours to visit my mom, the girls fell asleep pretty quickly, but Patrick was wide awake and starting to get irritable.
So to keep Patrick quiet, we sang... and sang... and sang... and sang... and sang...
While singing the Winnie the Pooh song is fun and cute, after 90 minutes of singing, you want fly down to Disney World and detonate an atomic weapon.
However Patrick was fine for the trip, and we had a scream-free ride.
Were this trip on a plane, who's to say whether this would have worked, but have a little sympathy for the parents who are trying their best to keep the child entertained. As any parent will tell you, the term "control your child" is a joke. You can't control children, you can only hope to redirect them, and despite our best efforts, that doesn't always work.
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"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."
Jan 9, 2001 | 10:29 am
#65
Join Date: May 2000
Programs: Ozark Airlines--Lifetime Platinum, Braniff---Diamond, Eastern--Plutonium Motel 6--Guest of the Month
Posts: 853
As a parent, I can almost tell which of you has kids and which of you do not from your posts. Just because you have friends that have kids does not mean you know what it is like to travel with them. As for those of you that have the elitist mentality that the children should not ride in first, you need only read the newspaper to see what some of the "adults" are doing in first class! Everybody remembers the gentleman that "relieved" himself on the drink cart, and more recently the passenger who tried to crash the BA 747 after getting into the cockpit. I would much rather hear any child crying than to have to deal with these "adults". As for keeping the children in coach, what happens when they are in the first row of coach and you can still hear them thru the curtain to your seat in first? Must the children then be kept back far enough so that the "snobs" cannot hear them? Let's all lighten up people and remember that we are all human beings!
As for keeping the children in coach, what happens when they are in the first row of coach and you can still hear them thru the curtain to your seat in first? Must the children then be kept back far enough so that the "snobs" cannot hear them? Let's all lighten up people and remember that we are all human beings!
Jan 9, 2001 | 12:05 pm
#66
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Programs: Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold, Alaska MVP Gold, National Executive
Posts: 233
My original post had to do with infants and toddlers, not older children, who are going to naturally cry or scream when their ears hurt or they are bored, hungry, etc.
After all of the postings, I realize it is really whether the parents do anything about it that is the problem, not the location of the child. On the flight I mentioned, the parents did not get up, walk the child or take any other obvious action to stop the screaming.
However, I think all of the people talking about a desire for first class to be a more pleasant experience than coach being elitist have missed the point. My expectations for a fancy $200 dinner at a candlelit white tablecloth restaurant are very different than my expectations when I eat at McDonalds. I don't believe that is elitist.
In any event, I certainly seemed to have hit a pressure point.
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AS MVP Gold, UA PremEx, HHonors Gold, Hertz Pres Circle
After all of the postings, I realize it is really whether the parents do anything about it that is the problem, not the location of the child. On the flight I mentioned, the parents did not get up, walk the child or take any other obvious action to stop the screaming.
However, I think all of the people talking about a desire for first class to be a more pleasant experience than coach being elitist have missed the point. My expectations for a fancy $200 dinner at a candlelit white tablecloth restaurant are very different than my expectations when I eat at McDonalds. I don't believe that is elitist.
In any event, I certainly seemed to have hit a pressure point.
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AS MVP Gold, UA PremEx, HHonors Gold, Hertz Pres Circle
Jan 9, 2001 | 12:49 pm
#67
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Internets
Posts: 8,269
It is unfortunate to be called a farting elitist SOB. I didn't call anyone names.
The beef is not with the child, of course, but with the parents who refuse to even attempt to do anything. I don't have a right to go and inconvenience people in the cabin, so they don't either. Kid or not, period.
And this has nothing to do with flying, btw. Same applies for movie theatres and restaurants. It's just basic manners. I once kicked out of a movie theater a couple and their screaming two year old that they refused to take outside as he was screaming his head off. Sorry, but no one forced you to have a kid, and if you had one, you have no right to impose their behavior on anyone else.
I'd be more inclined to be friendly if the parents attempted to do something or came to me with an apology for not being successful. Then, IMHO, they have shown consideration for others.
If that makes me a farting elitist SOB then I'll sign on the dotted line.
[This message has been edited by Droneklax (edited 01-09-2001).]
The beef is not with the child, of course, but with the parents who refuse to even attempt to do anything. I don't have a right to go and inconvenience people in the cabin, so they don't either. Kid or not, period.
And this has nothing to do with flying, btw. Same applies for movie theatres and restaurants. It's just basic manners. I once kicked out of a movie theater a couple and their screaming two year old that they refused to take outside as he was screaming his head off. Sorry, but no one forced you to have a kid, and if you had one, you have no right to impose their behavior on anyone else.
I'd be more inclined to be friendly if the parents attempted to do something or came to me with an apology for not being successful. Then, IMHO, they have shown consideration for others.
If that makes me a farting elitist SOB then I'll sign on the dotted line.
[This message has been edited by Droneklax (edited 01-09-2001).]
Jan 9, 2001 | 1:13 pm
#68
Join Date: May 1998
Posts: 3,069
A movie theater or restaurant is not comparable to an aircraft.
For starters, you can't just leave a plane in mid-flight.
A crying infant in a movie prevents others from hearing the movie, but in a plane, they don't prevent anyone from getting to their destination.
There's little point in even bringing infants to the movies, but they must fly to reach certain destinations.
Restaurants are a bit of a gray area, depending on cuisine, etc.
The elitist part comes in with the attitude that somehow 1st class passengers should be spared the crying baby while coach passengers should not.
For starters, you can't just leave a plane in mid-flight.
A crying infant in a movie prevents others from hearing the movie, but in a plane, they don't prevent anyone from getting to their destination.
There's little point in even bringing infants to the movies, but they must fly to reach certain destinations.
Restaurants are a bit of a gray area, depending on cuisine, etc.
The elitist part comes in with the attitude that somehow 1st class passengers should be spared the crying baby while coach passengers should not.
Jan 9, 2001 | 1:27 pm
#69
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Northport, NY
Programs: Advantage 4MM
Posts: 1,742
Law Lord,
My daughters have flown, both coach and first, since they were 4 months old. We always brought the car seat for use on the plane. This way they were in a familiar spot, and thus very happy. As others have mentioned, lots of NEW toys, crayons, and snacks hepled. Most airlines offer peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for the little ones, which are always a hit. Don't forget the pacifier, and a bottle for takeoff and landing.
Enjoy !
To quote Abraham Lincoln:
We never stand so tall as when we stoop to help a child
My daughters have flown, both coach and first, since they were 4 months old. We always brought the car seat for use on the plane. This way they were in a familiar spot, and thus very happy. As others have mentioned, lots of NEW toys, crayons, and snacks hepled. Most airlines offer peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for the little ones, which are always a hit. Don't forget the pacifier, and a bottle for takeoff and landing.
Enjoy !
To quote Abraham Lincoln:
We never stand so tall as when we stoop to help a child
Jan 9, 2001 | 1:51 pm
#70
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Celia Cruz, you live forever in our hearts.
Posts: 2,052
Greytop, I agree that the problem is with the parents. I always bring my walkman and have been glad for it so many times, and as an added benefit I can also save the $4 charge for the inflight-movie headphones since I just plug my own in. Anyway, I was on CO LAX-LGA, about a 5 hour flight, last month. The plane was really packed. I should mention I was in coach, as always ...
One of the two available restrooms was broken and there was a huge line forming and growing longer, about 10 people. While I waited, and waited, in line the FA opened the door to the broken restroom and told us that the problem was that some woman in First Class had come back to *OUR* bathroom and tried to flush a diaper down, which of course clogged the toilet!!!! Then she scampered back to First Class, unaware and probably unconcerned with the problem she caused us peons. The FA had to reach into the toilet and try to get the wadded up diaper out. She said that she wanted to take the diaper up and dump it on this woman's lap. I used to think that being an FA was such a glamorous job and didn't really appreciate everything that they do until that day.
One of the two available restrooms was broken and there was a huge line forming and growing longer, about 10 people. While I waited, and waited, in line the FA opened the door to the broken restroom and told us that the problem was that some woman in First Class had come back to *OUR* bathroom and tried to flush a diaper down, which of course clogged the toilet!!!! Then she scampered back to First Class, unaware and probably unconcerned with the problem she caused us peons. The FA had to reach into the toilet and try to get the wadded up diaper out. She said that she wanted to take the diaper up and dump it on this woman's lap. I used to think that being an FA was such a glamorous job and didn't really appreciate everything that they do until that day.
Jan 9, 2001 | 2:51 pm
#71
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Boston,MA,USA and GVA
Posts: 433
First off- I gotta side with Zipual, I dont have kids, therefore should I not put the blame on the parents who travel with their children. Someday, when I have my own little kid who travels well, then I can comment on others parenting abilities, but for now, nope. Another thing- When I was a kid traveling in F or C I got my fair share of dirty looks from Pax, who would in turn get a dirty look from me. This is all to common and reflects a general attitude that kids are smaller/ younger and so should be in coach. 10 years ago at 14 I was 6'1 176 ibs and not nearly the biggest in my class. With over 4 hours of homework nightly, my work was seemed a little more important than the businessman who was reading the wall street journal. Since I was 7 I have resented buisness travellers and to this day, even when I am a buisness flyer, I try my hardest to welcome Kids into F or C.
Jan 9, 2001 | 5:11 pm
#73
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Pismo Beach, CA
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite, UA Premier 1K, TAP Silver, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 1,546
The problem is always the parents who either have not raised their children to have manners. As for infants who are to small, there are medications which can safely help them sleep, not experience the discomfort, and at the same time make a trip comfortable for everyone.
Some parents are just inconsiderate and themselves have no manner--as shown concretely by some of the postings in this thread: namecaliing, etc.
When I pay a full fare first class ticket which cost 2 months of my take home salary, I want to have a peaceful experience. That doesn't makeme an elitist SOB, just a hard working person who sometimes wants to enjoy himself.
When I was a small child and hyper, my grandmother would not let me disturb patrons in restaurants but instead have me eat in another room.
It's sad to see adults bicker on this board. We have other venues for this: perhaps a guest appearance on Jerry Springer!
Nobbi
Some parents are just inconsiderate and themselves have no manner--as shown concretely by some of the postings in this thread: namecaliing, etc.
When I pay a full fare first class ticket which cost 2 months of my take home salary, I want to have a peaceful experience. That doesn't makeme an elitist SOB, just a hard working person who sometimes wants to enjoy himself.
When I was a small child and hyper, my grandmother would not let me disturb patrons in restaurants but instead have me eat in another room.
It's sad to see adults bicker on this board. We have other venues for this: perhaps a guest appearance on Jerry Springer!
Nobbi
Jan 9, 2001 | 5:37 pm
#74
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Manhattan, NY
Programs: USAir AA Hilton
Posts: 3,567
I have to admit, I'm amazed at the nerve this thread has struck. Comments like "put your hand over their mouth", "give them medication", "sit in the back of the plane", PARENTS DO SOMETHING... genuinely saddens me.
My children have flown w/ me since they were very little - not often - only when we were in the service and not for years afterwards - but when they did, I made every effort to make life easy for ME - as I expect most parents do: fly the redeye when you can - fewer people, more room to spread out - maybe they'll fall asleep; all the other "tricks" folks have described here - food, entertainment, familiar things - I've subscribed to. And sometimes in spite of everything, little Johnny gets possessed.
I suspect that the more outrageous comments are born of the bravado provided by anonymity. But I hope all of you know that none of us who travel with children embark with any intent to disregard your predictable and justifiable desire to endure little Johnny in a possessed state. I suspect if it seems that way, it's either a minority parent with no instincts at all of truly being a parent (in which case you won't be able to give them a character transplant), OR you just can't recognize the frustration they are suffering.
I call for compassion and an ability to accept with grace the trials life hands us sometimes
My children have flown w/ me since they were very little - not often - only when we were in the service and not for years afterwards - but when they did, I made every effort to make life easy for ME - as I expect most parents do: fly the redeye when you can - fewer people, more room to spread out - maybe they'll fall asleep; all the other "tricks" folks have described here - food, entertainment, familiar things - I've subscribed to. And sometimes in spite of everything, little Johnny gets possessed.
I suspect that the more outrageous comments are born of the bravado provided by anonymity. But I hope all of you know that none of us who travel with children embark with any intent to disregard your predictable and justifiable desire to endure little Johnny in a possessed state. I suspect if it seems that way, it's either a minority parent with no instincts at all of truly being a parent (in which case you won't be able to give them a character transplant), OR you just can't recognize the frustration they are suffering.
I call for compassion and an ability to accept with grace the trials life hands us sometimes
Jan 9, 2001 | 5:57 pm
#75
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Posts: 1,987
I had one occasion where my husband and I upgraded to first on a trip to Hawaii. Our little one was sitting in coach with my parents. From time to time, he wanted to see mommy or daddy so we played musical chairs with my parents moving from first to coach. I brought him up with me once to calm him down with my ice cream sundae. He was acting up a little bit and before I knew it the stewardess told me a passenger had complained and that I needed to return my son. I was so mad because on the same flight, there was another couple with a lap child (little girl - 18 months) who just wailed and screamed throughout the movie and flight and yet the parents did nothing nor were they asked to leave first. I admit she was even annoying me but when my son was acting up, I didn't hesitate to move him from first as I did not want to disturb all. But he acted up once and I was kicked out. The stewardess' were then mad that we were playing musical seats in first and coach but there were no other seats that I could displace my parents while I sat with my child in coach. What would you have done? I admit, I was mad the rest of the flight and could not enjoy the benefits of first that I and my husband were entitled to.