I'm moving from Washington, DC to Honolulu in early January (yippee!).

I have not had a lot of business travel on my current job. Living in DC, and not wanting to go all the way to Dulles every time I fly, I have not been able to concentrate all my flights in any one program. So I don't have elite status anywhere, except for a temporary comp to Gold by AA. So upgrades have not been much of a motivator in choice of program. That said, I have focused on AA, and accumulated (net of redemptions) a couple of hundred thousand miles, mostly from credit card use. To date, I have preferred to use my miles for business class international travel.

In Hawaii, I anticipate that I will fly more both for business and personal reasons, so I expect that I will easily reach an elite level and upgrades will become more of a motivator. I will want to use miles for business class travel to Asia and business or first class travel to the Mainland.

Any suggestions as to where I should move my FF program loyalty?

I've always been relatively happy with AA's wide variety of partners and redemption opportunities. However, they don't fly from Honolulu to Asia (I'd be on partners JL or OZ) and their first class service to the mainland is supposed to be awful. I also have had a hard time using miles for the front cabin on exploratory trips to the Islands.

UA flies to Asia from Honolulu, and they've got a lot of capacity to the Islands. That seems to translate to a lot of award availability: I used Starponts to book an award trip in business to the Islands earlier this year and had no problem sith desired dates. But I'm never been too impressed with their redemption levels to Asia, particularly where you have to use a partner airline for all or a part of the trip.

NW flies to Asia from Honolulu. I took a recent trip to Hawaii in the front cabin on NW, and was impressed by the service. But there seem to be a lot of compliants about NW's Asia service, and a lot of unhappiness with the airlie and their FF program in general.

Any further thoughts on the advantages or disadvantages of each carrier? Any other suggestions from the experts?

Thanks -- Charlie

Ummm.....

Have you lived in Hawaii before?
I lived in Honolulu ofr a while, and now I live in MSP, where I have to be subjected to both winter and Northwest Airlines.

Weather isn't everything. I hope you are happy, and I certainly hope that you made an educated decision. It's a beautiful place, but I'm glad I don't live there. If you are not a native (non-racial classification), you will soon find out a big part of the reason why.

Aloha Chazas! I think your best bet from Hawaii is United or Northwest. I have flown both carriers to Asia from Honolulu and find minimal diffences betweenthe two. Flights in coach and first are comparable. My experience has been the flight crew makes the difference. Of all the flights to/from Hawaii, United has the biggest share. Every flight is long and will show movies - United has free headsets in coach. Not a big deal but something no other airline offers. I concur with BoSoxFan45 about Hawaii. It's a nice place to visit, but...I'm looking forward to moving to the mainland. Hope you like it here.

For those of us not in the know, what do you mean guys?

They are probably talking about how they don't blend in with the very distinct local Hawaiian culture.

Anybody not "from" Hawaii kind of stands out here. Such people, especially if they are white, are called haoles (pernounced how-oh-lees), which literally means foreigner, but is usually used as a label for a proper-english speaking white-guy. The local culture has developed its own distinct language/dialect/slang, diet, behaviors, icons, etc.

Just the way you talk will tell locals that you are not from here and, as a result, you may be treated differently.

Although most locals are a mix of Hawaiian, Asian (especially Japanese, Korean, Chinese), South Pacific Islander, Filipino, or Portugese -- being "local" is not about race. It's about being "from" Hawaii. Locals are white, too.

Not being local doesn't mean people will hate you. It just means that you will be somewhat of an outsider. That's all. And obviously locals will be favored over outsiders for certain things...

I have lived in Hawaii only the last 10 years of my life and not being local hasn't mattered to me at all. There are plenty of non-locals here. Do not think that not being local is some kind of barrier -- differences melt away very quickly if you let them.


[This message has been edited by anthonyanthony (edited 10-26-2000).]

January is a good time to move from D.C. to Hawaii.

If you fly to the U.S. mainland a lot then UA will serve you well with many flights a day. However, the HNL-ORD flight is being discontinued in Feb so that will add at least one more connection on the west coast to fly anywhere in the east.

I've had good experiences flying to Asia on UA too except that many places need a long layover in Narita.

Your major problem is that there are a lot of Premier members in Hawaii (all those trips to Las Vegas). This could reduce your chances for an upgrade. On the plus side, you can use all those upgrade certificates for travel to/from Hawaii when you become a HI resident.

All good ideas except you forgot Continental they have true firstclass service just great, hard to get. They also have tie ins to Northwest and fly to several islands in the Pacific and they have a Guam hub. Also fly nonstop to New York,Houston and Los Angeles. Check them out!

Not to rip on Hawaii, but here's why I am glad I now live on the mainland.

1) The public schools are horrible- some of the worst in the country.

2) The economy is awful, and will be for a long time.

3) The culture is much more relaxed. This is fine, but you also have to consider that if you want a plumber and they say Tuesday, it might mean Thursday, or it might mean never. Things don't get done, and what does get done, gets done with less quality there, by and large, than on the mainland.

4) People ABSOLUTELY treat non-locals differently, and it has nothing to do with race 95% of the time. You jsut speak differently. When trying to blend in, and trying to learn the lingo, and you inevitably mess up a word, people look at you like you are mentally challenged, and sometimes will openly mock you. Nothing to do with being a haole.

5) It is such a standing pool of humanity. People generally don't come and go. Therefore, if someone is new, the first question is "Where did you go to school". The answer they want is not Harvard, UCLA, Fresno State, or any other college, but the high school you went to. And generally, if you didn't go to one of three elite private schools, you are looked at with a sense of derision. The question is asked in an attempt to judge you and to place you in the pre-existing caste system which exists there.

Generally, I felt uncomfortable. I felt people didn't feel the need to try. People don't work hard, and a lot of people have a sense of entitlement based upon their particular "caste". I know it is like that many places, but take the worst place you know in that regard in the U.S. and multiply it by 3, and you have Honolulu.

Yikes, BoSox. Sorry you had such a bad experience.

I haven't lived in HI before. In fact, I haven't even spent vacation time there for many years, prior to job-huting trips. I didn't start with the idea that I wanted to live in some vacation paradise. Instead, once I decided to leave DC, I chose HI out of several options based on a bunch of criteria. I then researched it so thoroughly and learned so much about it that people are shocked I've never lived there. I've also made a lot of friends and business contacts during the course of my job search.

As for being in the minority, I'm a white guy who's lived in downtown Washington DC for the last 12 years. I'm also gay. So it won't be a new experience. It's just something to learn to deal with, and something an awful lot of non-whites deal with successfully on the mainland every day.

I don't have kids, so public schools aren't an issue. And they're pretty poor in DC, anyway, so that wouldn't be anything new.

The Hawiian economy is showing definite signs of a firm recovery. I'm making a gamble, but I think now is the perfect time to cash out of our overheated real estate market and move somewhere the economic cycle isn't 100% dictated by what's going on on the U.S. mainland. And I've got a great job lined up, working with a great group of people.

Frankly, I'm really looking forward to living in a place that's not so transient. DC is among the most mobile places in the country -- it's hard to feel connected and settled here. I'm really hoping to put down roots in the community. And almost everyone I've spoken with in HI agrees that if you make a serious effort to get involved, and not to give off a "superior" vibe because you're from the mainland, you'll be accepted and happy (if not "local").

This is a grand adventure. I'm comfortable with my decision and really looking forward to it. So, thanks to those of you who are giving me FF program advice (especially TropicalFlyer, who was nice enough to respond to an e-mail from me several months ago when I was first exploring life in the islands).

Charlie

Charlie-

I wish you the best of luck. Life is indeed a grand adventure and this certainly will be an interesting, and maybe wonderful experience. I wish you all the best.
Where are you working, or in what field?

I'm not gay, and not a minority, but I think that an "outsider" moving to Honolulu is likely a different experience than being gay or minority in many places in the lower 48. Not better or worse, but different. I suppose the best analogy would be to compare moving to Hawaii to moving to another country, where the culture seems at first blush to be similar, but because it seems similar, it takes a while to figure out the differences, which are large.

And I think you will be struck that it is not the outsiders that have an air of superiority, but rather the opposite.

I know many people who love it there and would never leave- the VAST majority of those people, however, are true Ka'ma'aina (hopefully my spelling is not too off).

As a current (though not much longer) Honolulu resident, I've found that NW isn't all that bad (despite the complaints made by some folks on the boards).

I've been upgraded to the front cabin on numerous occasions (to Asia and the mainland), usually without using miles or certificates, and don't find the service all that bad. The NW staff at HNL seem pretty helpful in tweaking flights, etc, to provide the best possible experience (and I'm currently just a silver elite...though closing in on gold).

It IS tough to get free WBC seats to asia (at least beyond NRT), but I've had fairly good luck using miles to upgrade....or as I mentioned, getting upgraded on my good looks and winning personality. Just my humble opinion.

SK, My response is based on my experiences:
1. There is a real difference in the way you are treated in some parts of the island by the locals. You may not experience everytime but often enough to draw a conclusion.
2. The schools are terrible. Before Hawaii, I lived in San Diego. My kids were doing great in school. In the Hawaii schools they are being taught things they learned about in San Diego schools two years ago. My opinion is that non-local kids have to "dumb down" to the Hawaii school system.
3. Outsiders moving here have visions of the tropical paradise and sandy beaches they saw in tourism ads for Waikiki. What most people don't know about is the traffic jams, cramped living conditions, cost of living, high crime, local's attitude towards outsiders, etc.
4. Island fever. One thing you have to remember, you are landlocked on an island so you must find something to do locally; that is if you don't want to fly off the island. There are plenty of things to do here but a change of pace is nice.
Chazas and BoSox, I've lived all over the country, including Minneapolis (Bloomington) and Washington DC, and have opinions, both good and bad, of the different regions in our country. I think the Minneapolis area is one of the best areas in the country (except for the cold) for that "quality of life" we all desire. Hawaii has many appealing qualities but in my opinion severely lacks many of the basic standards and principles that we take for granted on the mainland. Chazas, the thing to take away from this topic thread is that Hawaii is different things to different people. While I think BoSox and I share some of the same opinions, you will form your own. I hope you have a good Hawaii experience. R, PACMAN