First Class Dying as FTers are only takers
Jul 23, 2012 | 2:49 pm
#16
Join Date: May 2004
Programs: BA blue, LH Senator, KQ (FB) gold
Posts: 8,214
I don't see the point of buying a seat on a chartered plane (as opposed to chartering yourself) versus using first class on a scheduled airline (at least, a high quality scheduled airline such as LH, BA, AF, EK, QA, SQ, CX, QT, etc.)
You still have to fly their schedule, and the quality of service is probably as good or better on the scheduled airline. Plus you have better backups through the scheduled airline than the charter.
You still have to fly their schedule, and the quality of service is probably as good or better on the scheduled airline. Plus you have better backups through the scheduled airline than the charter.
Jul 23, 2012 | 3:00 pm
#17
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
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but I understand they have fewer seats per flight.
I think there will always be a group of people that do not have a private jet but have no problems dropping 10-20K for an international flight.
I cannot imagine they would pay that money to fly AA or UA; they would pick one of the European or Asian airlines.
I think there will always be a group of people that do not have a private jet but have no problems dropping 10-20K for an international flight.
I cannot imagine they would pay that money to fly AA or UA; they would pick one of the European or Asian airlines.
Also agree there will always be people willing to pay for commercial F, especially when you beyond the maximum range of most typical private jets.
Jul 23, 2012 | 3:50 pm
#18
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Yes, a new product. With fewer seats and in fewer markets. They're cutting it back, even if the places it remains still offer quite a nice experience.
Jul 23, 2012 | 3:56 pm
#19
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Helsinki & Austin
Programs: "But, I'm a GLOBALIST guest...."
Posts: 2,883
I don't see the point of buying a seat on a chartered plane (as opposed to chartering yourself) versus using first class on a scheduled airline (at least, a high quality scheduled airline such as LH, BA, AF, EK, QA, SQ, CX, QT, etc.)
You still have to fly their schedule, and the quality of service is probably as good or better on the scheduled airline. Plus you have better backups through the scheduled airline than the charter.
You still have to fly their schedule, and the quality of service is probably as good or better on the scheduled airline. Plus you have better backups through the scheduled airline than the charter.
Chartered private jets (shared or otherwise) are not the same in some peoples eyes as commercial. Some elites enjoy bragging rights, if you will.
Jul 23, 2012 | 8:10 pm
#21
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP,AS MVPG,MR Platinum,HH Gold
Posts: 1,343
Haha, UA doesn't have an F product. They have bigger-seat J. Just like they don't have a J product domestically, just big-seat Y. The UA F food is exactly the same as the J food but with an extra option. No extra service. Their ground services are pitiful at best. I don't think anyone can say with a straight face UA F even holds a candle to LH/TG/SQ/LX/EK/QR or any of the other top-shelf brands.
Jul 23, 2012 | 8:40 pm
#23
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York, NY
Programs: DL Gold. UA Silver, Marriott Gold, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt (Lifetime Diamond downgraded to Explorist)
Posts: 6,777
I don't think LHR is all that important for an F product. It isn't enough time for a meal or two and some slumber. I think a good J product from Bos/ORD/NYC/WAS-LHR is more than fine.
Jul 24, 2012 | 8:56 am
#24
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: LAX
Programs: Free agent
Posts: 4,270
I think the US carriers should get rid of their F product.
There is too much negative stereotype, and from an operational perspective, their is no way the soft/hard product can compete with foreign carriers with a genuine first class.
So many obstacles stand in the way of getting a US carrier up to the same level, and from a pricing perspective, they can't seem to compete.
There is too much negative stereotype, and from an operational perspective, their is no way the soft/hard product can compete with foreign carriers with a genuine first class.
So many obstacles stand in the way of getting a US carrier up to the same level, and from a pricing perspective, they can't seem to compete.
Jul 24, 2012 | 9:47 am
#25
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 210
(Have you flown Cathay Pacific international First?)
Jul 24, 2012 | 11:07 am
#26
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On CX I have seen Y oversold but F with 3 pax YVR HKG.
Jul 24, 2012 | 11:09 am
#27
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I think the US carriers should get rid of their F product.
There is too much negative stereotype, and from an operational perspective, their is no way the soft/hard product can compete with foreign carriers with a genuine first class.
So many obstacles stand in the way of getting a US carrier up to the same level, and from a pricing perspective, they can't seem to compete.
There is too much negative stereotype, and from an operational perspective, their is no way the soft/hard product can compete with foreign carriers with a genuine first class.
So many obstacles stand in the way of getting a US carrier up to the same level, and from a pricing perspective, they can't seem to compete.
If they serve good champagne and caviar then the eVIP can be worth >$700.
Jul 24, 2012 | 12:28 pm
#28
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP,AS MVPG,MR Platinum,HH Gold
Posts: 1,343
3... out of 6? Maybe 9? I mean for First those are pretty good loads if paid. At a price of $13k per person round tri[, they're pulling in at least $40k from that cabin. You'd have to sell a lot of Y at $900 to make that up. Especially when incremental cost to carry people in F isn't all that high.
Jul 24, 2012 | 12:29 pm
#29
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP,AS MVPG,MR Platinum,HH Gold
Posts: 1,343
Exactly. This right here is why US carriers have poor int'l F products. Nobody pays to sit there because of eVIPs and miles and upgrades and being airline employees. That in turn causes service standards to fall. That in turns causes nobody to buy the seats.
Jul 24, 2012 | 2:38 pm
#30
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: LAX
Programs: Free agent
Posts: 4,270
Look at SQ and CX or other foreign carriers approach to protecting the premium cabin... they guard it with a higher requirement. Of course the rest of what they do service and product wise is better too.