AggieTraveler

Thanks for the response. I do understand your stance based on your last sentence.

This sums up the impressions I've gotten exactly.

The Weekly Flyer

I honestly think it is the best thing since sliced bread.

I can hop a flight to NYC for 7,500 or down to Miami for 4,500. And I only have to book a few hours in advance and pay about $2.50 in most cases.

There ARE non-FT and non-MP folks who read blogs. Most of those people have no idea why they should get a British Airways account and stock it up with "points" rather than keep their US based airline miles for short haul redemptions.

abcx

Yes, but I don't understand why we are falling over ourselves for common decency - if you tell a man something in private, it should stay private. This is not a sign of a blogger showing discretion. It's just what I would expect from everyone.

HansGolden

It was me that mentioned upthread (and some else affirmed a few posts ago) that FTG honors things shared in confidence and doesn't post things that he thinks would be killed if he did.

I'm sensing a certain lack of logic in the above posts.

First you cast aspersions on FTG's motives for not sharing everything he knows--you cast his actions as elitist FTG vs. poor masses. Really what I was primarily talking about was simple integrity--not posting things that are shared in confidence. I'm of the opinion that integrity and honesty in our dealings with each other in the FT community needs to be the bedrock of our relationships. (I know that I'm a bit of an abberation in that I also believe in being honest with the companies that I deal with; I won't lie to them either.) Furthermore, your elitist charge doesn't make sense because the deals FTG doesn't publicize because it would kill them are deals that tend to be well known among the hard workers in the FF community. So he'd actually be doing his readers a disservice by broadcasting the details if it meant being killed in a few days.

Your second comment is what really caught my attention from the standpoint of simple logic. Your second comment moves from casting aspersions on his motives from an elitist angle to doing so from a profit angle. That makes no sense. Bloggers get their income from traffic and spilling secrets drives traffic. So to imply that it might be profit motive that keeps FTG from spilling the beans is exactly counter-logical.

Finally, the idea that if there was no profit motive, there would be no decision to make means that you have not been paying any attention to this thread. A number of people on both sides of the blog fence have made an effective case for the need for some level of discretion on certain deals. Discretion is just another word for decision making, usually inferring wise decision-making.

--

This thread reveals the welfare mentality of the Western world. Some posters on here feel entitled to get the latest and greatest strategies and deals even when they didn't do a stitch of work developing those deals. That entitlement mentality really stinks to those of us who put in long hours working on this. (The 1mm DL deal I mentioned in FTG interview was born out of years of hard work selling online. I then stayed up all night executing it.) No one is entitled to swoop in and take our work. I've found that a large percentage of the best minds are remarkably generous if a newbie comes along and demonstrates that they've been working hard and discovering stuff. However, folks that expend the elbow grease will not cast their work into public only to see it destroyed by people who are not even grateful because they felt entitled in the first place.

We're happy to share the unkillable things we learned, even if folks are ungrateful. We know that there are lots of wonderful, grateful people out there and we want to keep serving and giving to them.

I agree with others who've said that this not primarily a blog vs. FT problem but rather an FT vs. FT problem in which we need to wisely judge that delicate balance between free sharing and long term sustainability. Both of those goals are meant in service to the community, but they do sometimes work at cross purposes.

(Just to clarify, if you're a productive, helpful member of FT, even if you haven't discovered any jumbo deals, the above is not directed at you. The above is only directed at those who feel that it's their inherent right to be let in on the jumbo deals without contributing anything.)

HansGolden

There were two elements to my upthread post that mentioned this. The integrity issue on things that I've shared with FTG and also his discretion in not posting other things (which was not necessarily shared with him in confidence) that are killable.

AggieTraveler

Welfare is exactly what popped into my head several pages back on this thread. I completely understand not just handing things out to those who don't contribute. I would wager that almost all of the people who aren't okay with that are the ones that don't want to do any work and just want everything handed to them on a silver platter.

Mary2e

To illustrate the point I was trying to make.... I went into 2 threads today that I thought I could offer some assistance. They were posted by relative newbies - and I went to check their posting history and both only posted in these deals threads.

I closed the threads without replying. I suspect many others are also doing the same because I've noticed a lack of responses when the question is so basic that only someone who doesn't bother to read any other forums/threads besides the gimmes would know the answer.

MM56

You are correct that I cast his actions as “elitist FTG vs. poor masses.” He frequently attempts to get “the masses” to his site for cc referrals by speaking to the media as recently as the huffpo article, not to mention a national news segment viewed by “4-5 million.” Sure, he can say that those people only stuck around for a couple days and then the traffic returned to normal, but then where is the motive to get the information to the masses if they are never really going to participate? To drive traffic and increase cc referrals, even if for only a couple days, and then it’s on to the next media opportunity.

I believe you missed my point about profit motive. The fact is, is that he needs to make a decision as to where his profit is coming from. The deal he has that is a secret is one form of profit (exploiting that deal repeatedly over time, profiting slowly) and exposing the secret to drive traffic to his site is another form of profit. A decision needs to be made by him to determine whether or not the traffic will profit more, or the deal over time will profit more, taking into account future secret deals he would be left out of for exploiting confidences. This is a decision only a blogger with cc referrals needs to make. If someone with the secret deal has no blog, then there is nothing to decide (other than whether to quietly share the secret deal with others, which has no profit motive behind it). FTG has decided to not post the secret and break confidences, so the media driven traffic begins to look appealing.

Finally, the manor in which you have dissected my words is the exact reason why some people with low post counts choose to post infrequently. Instead of asking for clarification, you assumed I meant that he was choosing to withhold information, and that lead to him profiting. You saw a weakness, and you attempted to exploit it. Not very welcoming.

jeautk01

I agree completely with everything Hans Golden has said in this thread.

I write as I think so forgive tyops grammar in the following.

The main complaint is that the bloggers take and take but give nothing back to the FT community only enriching themselves and actually harming the overall FT community. You could fix this without changing the culture of FT by implementing a point system.

If you post a deal and other people think its worthy then you are awarded points by the community. This is kind of implemented by the CC, but the posting requirements doesn't not address the value of the comments made. Mod's only watch for abuses not general value of the comment. This system would also address the fact that someone may not have a Grand slam deal to post, but they might have a decent deal that even the board legends might not know about and could be helpful to newbies. This keeps the flow of free information going. The point awarding system cold also identify rising stars people that are adding a lot of value to the board and people you should be watching (you could create a rising star board showing who has gained most in a certain time frame). Then once you reach a certain point level you are allowed entry to the Juicy deal or Private forum. This would still allow for general tricks and tips that are in no jeopardy of being closed to exist (giving value to newbies) This would mean that people that help out others or post new or improved tricks would be able to earn entry to this area. To maintain entry to the Juicy Deal forum you would have to continue to post and earn points each year. This would encourage people to help out newbies and also to not rest on their laurels. You could also implement a lifetime Juicy deal poster for being in the top 10 one year or tipping an especially valuable trick which then could be voted on by the community at end of year. The top five deals give lifetime juicy deal status. This would limit the number of people who have access to these deals and bloggers would have to contribute in order to gain entry (not just take). Additionally, you could also stipulate that reposting of this information would result in revocation of Juicy deal access for a certain time frame.
Finally, to cut off the source that supplies most of the incentive for bloggers then just post the top credit card deals on the front page off FT with referral link. FT would be beneficiary and they could use the system where you get cashback for applying (as mentioned earlier in the thread).

FT could use this money to Fund More or Larger MegaDo's^

Just my rambling 2.

jeautk01

Also would give lurkers more incentive to post.

Marathon Man

so many companies know about FT that they now have lurkers of their own in here.

Whether they think we are pulling a fast one on some loophole, or we just pushed a promo to limits they never thought would be reached, the problem now is that once a company rep sees how we think, things change.

What then happens is that posters who are aware of this begin to post in code or only PM or email with small groups of people.

The sharing aspect goes down in FT
The angst and we vs they aspect goes up.

Bloggers are posting things and have found ways to make a few bucks or referral bonuses from what they post on their blogs. This is fine, and the companies who give them kick backs are doing something good, but as a result, any time a blogger gets a deal going, it may have a shelf life now. This is not to say there's something wrong with a blogger, but hey, once you have been blogging, your SO is going to say... hey babe, I wish you were making something off of all that Ft crap you talk about. And then one day a company DOES approach you, or you DO make enough click through's or referrals to generate some interest, and finally your SO is happy! I mean why not, right? Wouldnt many of us love to get paid for what we know in FT?

So I dont think the bloggers are killing things. They are just savvy business types who figured some things out and have the time and ability to organize and type it up. I do think some people who read the blogs no longer do their own home work. they just reply on others. Less creativity is bred from this.

In the end you have to be a rouge, like I guess I am

HansGolden

FTG provides very helpful and skill-appropriate assistance to newbies. Credit card signup bonuses are the foundation at which a newbie should start. It is far from the one-sided picture you paint of FTG taking from the newbies. FTG is probably the most generous and helpful of any of the bloggers.

I have a bunch of totally newbie offline friends--in fact my two best friends are in this boat--who absolutely love reading FTG's posts and benefit GREATLY from his honest appraisal of CCs. Through this they have tons of miles with which to travel for free. They don't have the time or inclination to dig deeper and get involved with the jumbo deals, but they very much appreciate FTG's help--they don't view it as if he's taking advantage of them by not sharing jumbo deals.

You're wrong to think of FTG as sitting back and personally profiting from his secrets (not to mention your math is way off if you think a blogger could ever profit more from exploiting a deal rather than sharing and getting more CC commissions). A number of the hot deals that I've shared he doesn't even take advantage of himself because it's too much coach travel or it's too much effort for too little gain, in his book. He definitely doesn't fit the uber-aggressive mold. There is no personal gain for him in not sharing these secrets, it's just that he cares about the community.

Furthermore, why begrudge him the media driven traffic? I'm happy that he can profit from his long history of helpfulness to the community. He's hardly killing CC deals!

You're fighting against yourself, not me:
So which is it?

Furthermore, I believe my reputation is that of being gracious to newbies, but when you come in (with your second post) questioning motives (of one of the most helpful and generous members of this community) without any substantiation and a total lack of logic, I will politely, but firmly reveal your logic for what it is. I make no apology for that.

The most egregious recurring component of your posts is your refusal to acknowledge that there might be some shred of kindness, generosity, or good will coming from FTG. All your posts make the assumption that it's either elitism or profit driving FTG's decisions. This is especially disturbing when directed at someone whom many on FT would say is one of the most generous and helpful and giving of any of the bloggers or indeed among FT members.

(After FTG found out that I'm involved in non-profit/humanitarian work, he called me to ask for input about yet another charitable project he is considering launching. Already all his book profits go to a charitable organization.)

HansGolden

I knew something looked different about you at the last DO!

Reminds me of this:

HansGolden

I don't know you at all, but you are definitely the most under-lauded blogger (Loyalty Traveler) on this thread. You are very careful not to post killable deals (I think especially of your vague remarks re: 6/10 cpm PC points purchase), but most of all you do INCREDIBLY valuable original work and analysis. Since your comprehensive and painstaking analysis and number-crunching remains totally within the intents of the program, there is no danger of deals getting killed. However, it helps very much to have a total expert in all the hotel programs crunching the numbers for us, leaving it unnecessary for us to reinvent the wheel. Kudos.

I would be very much in favor of you having CC links. I would really love to apply for some hotel cards through your links and reward you for all the work you do on my behalf.

84fiero

What you describe is sort of how MilePoint works.