Mar 15, 2020, 10:29 am
Last edit by: Maestro Ramen
FARE RULES:
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
I pulled down the DL fare rules (these are BUD-SEA but they all appeared nearly identical). I posted them on a share. We can easily grab the AF and KL variants if others need those.
Q: This is a fully flexible fare with free changes. Does that mean I can change the flight dates as I want without paying anything extra?
A: No. The airline simply doesn't charge a change fee. But depending on the fare rules, you will still need to pay the difference to the new price.
Q: But I read that some people could change their flights for free...?
A: The rules for this fare (linked to above) specify that historical pricing shall be used if either at least one flight from the ticket has been taken or the outbound remains the same. In other words, in order to be able to change your flights for free, you must have flown at least one flight from your booking. Otherwise, you can only change the inbound. The outbound has to remain the same or you will be charged the fare difference.
Q: Can I change the rest of the itinerary after flying the first segment without any other charges or additional fare differences?
A: Yes this is possible according to the fare rules where after completing the first segment, you can change the rest of the flights for free (with the condition that the same fare class is available- I-class - in this case. According to the fare rules, after flying the FIRST segment (in the case here BUD-XXX) the historical fare is used. Possible to use the first stopover at AMS or CDG (see post #830).
Q: But some people could change their outbound flights for free!
A: They got lucky. It was probably a bug on the website/in the app. When no flight from the ticket has been flown, the fare rules do not allow changing the outbound without repricing.
Q: Ok, ok, so I can only change the inbound for free. How do I do that?
A: You search for availability for alternative flights on ITA Matrix using "F ..I2FFHU" in the extension codes. You must search for round trip flights as this is a round trip fare. Then you ignore the outbound result (as long as you haven't flown at least one flight from your ticket) and just try to rebook your inbound on the website/app.
Q: I have found availability on ITA Matrix, but the app/website doesn't show me those flights!
A: Keep trying. Sometimes you may have to serach in a different way (split up the searches, e.g. HNL-LAX and LAX-BUD), sometimes you just have to repeat the search several times. But that's no guarantee the desired results will turn up (and without repricing).
Q: It doesn't work. Can I just call the airline to make the changes?
A: Please don't unless you need to. Calling can increase the risk for all of us that they'll change their mind and disallow all further changes, or simply cancel everyone's tickets. However, as this fare has now been running for months and has seen many calls made about it, it is reasonable to expect that calling will not cause issues at this stage. As best practice, avoid attracting attention on the low price paid, and avoid making additional demands or tempting your luck. Remember you get to fly a J ticket for the cost of a Y fare.
Q: How many times can I make changes?
A: In theory, as often as you like, but you can't make more than two changes online/in the app. After that, you'd have to call, which we are trying to avoid.
Q: I've changed my mind. Can I get a refund?
A: Yes, the fare was fully refundable. Just contact the airline or fill out a refund form online.
Q: Due to Coronavirus, I need to extend my travel plan beyond the original expiry date. What can I do?
A: For Delta tickets (starting with 006) you can travel at any point until December 2022. Changes to flights within a 10 month window can be done at any point on the app, following the rules above. If you want to fly later than 10 months from now, you can call Delta and ask them to "park" your ticket. You will receive a ticket number that ties to an eCredit which can be used later to buy tickets. As long as you keep the original itinerary, or if you have flown at least a segment, you will not be charged a fare difference. Bear in mind that the eCredit may only be refundable if your original flight was cancelled (which is very likely in those day and times). Note that only Delta in the US are able to do this so do not call the EU numbers (use Skype to save money on international calls). According to user feedback: iMessage agents seem to also be able to do this, but twitter agents not.
{prem fare gone}: AF/KL/DL/VS: BUD-US from $750 R/T
Jun 27, 2020, 8:27 am
#1531
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Posts: 568
I'm having less succes on the Delta Chat. Booked on a Delta ticket in October, 3 segment are cancelled by Delta and trying to change the dates. Spoke with 4 agents and all reprice the ticket (USD6400!). Now talking to 3rd 'Ticketing Support Specialist' and all I get is 'I cannot get it priced'. I forwarded them the waiver code and fare class restrictions, but it is just not working out. The only option they give, is a refund. I think I'm unlucky with the agents so far...
My hope would be Delta would extend their class-to-class policy (currently till Sept 30) into October.
My hope would be Delta would extend their class-to-class policy (currently till Sept 30) into October.
Jun 27, 2020, 12:01 pm
#1532
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 244
For the inbound, the longhaul (LAS-AMS) and the intra EU (AMS-BUD) are both showing J class. The entire outbound is still in I - but I didn't change the outbound.
Last edited by benjinito; Jun 27, 2020 at 12:11 pm Reason: clarity
Jun 27, 2020, 12:14 pm
#1533
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manhattan Beach, California
Programs: BMI Diamond Club Gold forever
Posts: 6,367
I'm having less succes on the Delta Chat. Booked on a Delta ticket in October, 3 segment are cancelled by Delta and trying to change the dates. Spoke with 4 agents and all reprice the ticket (USD6400!). Now talking to 3rd 'Ticketing Support Specialist' and all I get is 'I cannot get it priced'. I forwarded them the waiver code and fare class restrictions, but it is just not working out. The only option they give, is a refund. I think I'm unlucky with the agents so far...
My hope would be Delta would extend their class-to-class policy (currently till Sept 30) into October.
My hope would be Delta would extend their class-to-class policy (currently till Sept 30) into October.
Jun 28, 2020, 8:57 am
#1534
formerly mattking2000
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: DXB
Programs: BA|AC|AZ|SPG|H|FPC
Posts: 1,189
I'm having less succes on the Delta Chat. Booked on a Delta ticket in October, 3 segment are cancelled by Delta and trying to change the dates. Spoke with 4 agents and all reprice the ticket (USD6400!). Now talking to 3rd 'Ticketing Support Specialist' and all I get is 'I cannot get it priced'. I forwarded them the waiver code and fare class restrictions, but it is just not working out. The only option they give, is a refund. I think I'm unlucky with the agents so far...
My hope would be Delta would extend their class-to-class policy (currently till Sept 30) into October.
My hope would be Delta would extend their class-to-class policy (currently till Sept 30) into October.
Jun 29, 2020, 1:13 am
#1535
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Posts: 568
I was at AMS airport yesterday and went to the KLM ticketing desk. The 3 ladies loved the puzzle and jumped on it. They wanted to move my 006-ticket to a 074-ticket, so they could take control over it. Turns out: Delta locked the booking and put a warning pop-up on it. It more or less says: "Expedia screwed up, this route/fare should not be possible. Advise client to ask for refund". KLM wasn't able to shift the ticket to their system and could not make any chances.
Jun 29, 2020, 1:29 am
#1536
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,494
I was at AMS airport yesterday and went to the KLM ticketing desk. The 3 ladies loved the puzzle and jumped on it. They wanted to move my 006-ticket to a 074-ticket, so they could take control over it. Turns out: Delta locked the booking and put a warning pop-up on it. It more or less says: "Expedia screwed up, this route/fare should not be possible. Advise client to ask for refund". KLM wasn't able to shift the ticket to their system and could not make any chances.
Not exactly sure what you do about it - I guess more phone time with DL...?
Jun 29, 2020, 1:35 am
#1537
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: PRG, DRS, VIE
Programs: Marriott Titanium, BA Gold, A3 Gold
Posts: 939
I was at AMS airport yesterday and went to the KLM ticketing desk. The 3 ladies loved the puzzle and jumped on it. They wanted to move my 006-ticket to a 074-ticket, so they could take control over it. Turns out: Delta locked the booking and put a warning pop-up on it. It more or less says: "Expedia screwed up, this route/fare should not be possible. Advise client to ask for refund". KLM wasn't able to shift the ticket to their system and could not make any chances.
Jun 29, 2020, 2:55 am
#1538
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 205
I was at AMS airport yesterday and went to the KLM ticketing desk. The 3 ladies loved the puzzle and jumped on it. They wanted to move my 006-ticket to a 074-ticket, so they could take control over it. Turns out: Delta locked the booking and put a warning pop-up on it. It more or less says: "Expedia screwed up, this route/fare should not be possible. Advise client to ask for refund". KLM wasn't able to shift the ticket to their system and could not make any chances.
Jun 29, 2020, 6:39 am
#1539
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: Flying Blue Plat, Air Europa Silver, IHG Plat, Accor Plat
Posts: 1,011
With all the calling, chatting and even personal visits (!) to the KLM ticket desk, the risk is that everyone in KLM/AF/DL gets sick of all the fiddly demands around this error fare, and decides to cancel the whole thing and save the costs involved.
Be very careful what you ask for (is it reasonable?) and how you ask for it.
Be very careful what you ask for (is it reasonable?) and how you ask for it.
Jun 29, 2020, 7:23 am
#1540
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 18
To add a positive data point:
I had BUD-AMS scheduled for today, rest of the trip in late August-September, just called Delta and changed it all to next April-May 2021; "Because there was a schedule change this is free of charge of course". Thank you Delta.
I had BUD-AMS scheduled for today, rest of the trip in late August-September, just called Delta and changed it all to next April-May 2021; "Because there was a schedule change this is free of charge of course". Thank you Delta.
Jun 29, 2020, 7:38 am
#1541
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,494
With all the calling, chatting and even personal visits (!) to the KLM ticket desk, the risk is that everyone in KLM/AF/DL gets sick of all the fiddly demands around this error fare, and decides to cancel the whole thing and save the costs involved.
Be very careful what you ask for (is it reasonable?) and how you ask for it.
Be very careful what you ask for (is it reasonable?) and how you ask for it.
However, I think at this stage it's worth pointing out that DL/AF/KL knew about these fares on the Saturday and only actually withdrew the Hawai'i fares. They left the Lower 48 ones active through to Sunday and at no point have we had anyone report that they have been cancelled merely for being on these fares - we know that they are entirely capable of finding all relevant tickets. I don't think wholesale cancellation is likely at this stage.
With the current extraordinary situation has come rather extraordinary policies regarding changes. I don't think that asking to be rebooked under published policies is unreasonable, and I doubt that asking for changes under these policies is raising flags against particular fares.
It should never be the answer of the agent that they "can't price it" and give up - these policies are fairly clear so however they go about reissuing the ticket isn't really the customer's problem. This comment on the reservation strikes me as an agent getting frustrated and giving up - but notably they haven't actually cancelled the ticket or contacted Expedia to do so. It suggests to me that the agent wants the customer to solve the problem by cancelling themselves... We also know these fares were available from DL.com directly.
Jun 29, 2020, 7:55 am
#1542
Join Date: Mar 2018
Programs: DL DM, FB Gold
Posts: 296
I was denied checkin because KLM saw my ticket (Delta 006 stock) as cancelled. Agents refused to do anything about it as their internal helpdesk said “The ticket has not been paid for”.
The Delta hotline confirmed it was intact on their end but something must have got messed up due to the many changes which were necessary due to constant cancellations, schedule changes etc. It took over 2 hours on the phone to get it fixed because KLM had ticket control (<48hrs before departure).
It is advisable to absolutely limit the number of changes you make to these tickets. Otherwise you may end up like me sitting in an airport on hold with the Delta medallion line while the check in counter closes right in front of you.
The Delta hotline confirmed it was intact on their end but something must have got messed up due to the many changes which were necessary due to constant cancellations, schedule changes etc. It took over 2 hours on the phone to get it fixed because KLM had ticket control (<48hrs before departure).
It is advisable to absolutely limit the number of changes you make to these tickets. Otherwise you may end up like me sitting in an airport on hold with the Delta medallion line while the check in counter closes right in front of you.
Jun 29, 2020, 8:02 am
#1543
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: AMS
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, TK M&S Nobody
Posts: 2,494
I was denied checkin because KLM saw my ticket (Delta 006 stock) as cancelled. Agents refused to do anything about it as their internal helpdesk said “The ticket has not been paid for”.
The Delta hotline confirmed it was intact on their end but something must have got messed up due to the many changes which were necessary due to constant cancellations, schedule changes etc. It took over 2 hours on the phone to get it fixed because KLM had ticket control (<48hrs before departure).
It is advisable to absolutely limit the number of changes you make to these tickets. Otherwise you may end up like me sitting in an airport on hold with the Delta medallion line while the check in counter closes right in front of you.
The Delta hotline confirmed it was intact on their end but something must have got messed up due to the many changes which were necessary due to constant cancellations, schedule changes etc. It took over 2 hours on the phone to get it fixed because KLM had ticket control (<48hrs before departure).
It is advisable to absolutely limit the number of changes you make to these tickets. Otherwise you may end up like me sitting in an airport on hold with the Delta medallion line while the check in counter closes right in front of you.
Jun 29, 2020, 8:22 am
#1545
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Posts: 568
With all the calling, chatting and even personal visits (!) to the KLM ticket desk, the risk is that everyone in KLM/AF/DL gets sick of all the fiddly demands around this error fare, and decides to cancel the whole thing and save the costs involved.
Be very careful what you ask for (is it reasonable?) and how you ask for it.
Be very careful what you ask for (is it reasonable?) and how you ask for it.
OGG / HNL
I would not know, I don't have AF/KL tickets