{Fare Gone} Air France : IST - SJO $2,341 First Class$2,639 RT (mixed Business)
May 8, 2018, 7:47 am
#181
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Stockholm, Sweden.
Programs: BA, JAL
Posts: 689
"you should have realized that you cannot get F-ticket for 1269€"
The guy sounds like a #dooshbag. He should have realised that if it says 'First' then that's what the customer expects... The end.
The guy sounds like a #dooshbag. He should have realised that if it says 'First' then that's what the customer expects... The end.
May 8, 2018, 8:35 am
#182
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto (YYZ)
Posts: 6,279
Odd my credit card has not been charged for the ticket. I don’t see it as pending either. I know it was approved by AMEX as I got an alert but the charge isn’t reflected anywhere.
Any one else have the same issue? I booked with Orbitz but the charge on my notification was from AF.
Any one else have the same issue? I booked with Orbitz but the charge on my notification was from AF.
May 8, 2018, 10:11 am
#183
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Germany
Programs: BA GGL, CCR - TK G
Posts: 809
This is just wrong. They allowed you to check in and that's it - they should simply honor it.
I can understand changing future flights. However, I still doubt the legality of it in this case - people still paid a pretty significant fare for a route that can be flown in First class for about $4500 round trip and $2400 in business, any day of the year, on other airlines. Should a consumer assume that about half of the going rate is an error? I don't think so. The variation in airfare is such that no normal consumer can never judge the difference between error and offer at these price levels. Sure, if this would have been a $500 ticket, then you can argue that the customer should have known. But not in this case.
Airlines should not be allowed to do as they wish, without penalty, whenever they feel a ticket has been sold at a price point that they are uncomfortable with. As a buyer, you need to have some kind of certainty that you're going to get the services that you paid for.
I guess there needs to be some jurisprudence on these issues. This could be a good case. There is jurisprudence in the Netherlands on pricing errors on goods offered online. The case was about a TV offered for 10% of the going rate (EUR 99 instead of EUR 990). Both lower and higher courts ruled the sale was invalid. But their arguments are interesting. They argued that any consumer looking for a TV with these specifications should have known that 10% of the going rate was not a realistic price point. Especially since he seller did not specifically advertise it as a sale.
In this case though, Air France clearly put the "Lowest fare" green text on their own website. That could be seen as advertising a sale. Also, the pricing was not completely unrealistic for an average consumer. Look at the picture at the top of this thread: It's no more than a 15% difference between Business and First. They might just be running a promotion campaign for their first class cabin, offering it at a slight discount over Business. That could be a valid marketing method, get a couple of passengers that would normally fly in Business to experience their First class cabin, in the hope of selling them a higher fare the next time around.
I can understand changing future flights. However, I still doubt the legality of it in this case - people still paid a pretty significant fare for a route that can be flown in First class for about $4500 round trip and $2400 in business, any day of the year, on other airlines. Should a consumer assume that about half of the going rate is an error? I don't think so. The variation in airfare is such that no normal consumer can never judge the difference between error and offer at these price levels. Sure, if this would have been a $500 ticket, then you can argue that the customer should have known. But not in this case.
Airlines should not be allowed to do as they wish, without penalty, whenever they feel a ticket has been sold at a price point that they are uncomfortable with. As a buyer, you need to have some kind of certainty that you're going to get the services that you paid for.
I guess there needs to be some jurisprudence on these issues. This could be a good case. There is jurisprudence in the Netherlands on pricing errors on goods offered online. The case was about a TV offered for 10% of the going rate (EUR 99 instead of EUR 990). Both lower and higher courts ruled the sale was invalid. But their arguments are interesting. They argued that any consumer looking for a TV with these specifications should have known that 10% of the going rate was not a realistic price point. Especially since he seller did not specifically advertise it as a sale.
In this case though, Air France clearly put the "Lowest fare" green text on their own website. That could be seen as advertising a sale. Also, the pricing was not completely unrealistic for an average consumer. Look at the picture at the top of this thread: It's no more than a 15% difference between Business and First. They might just be running a promotion campaign for their first class cabin, offering it at a slight discount over Business. That could be a valid marketing method, get a couple of passengers that would normally fly in Business to experience their First class cabin, in the hope of selling them a higher fare the next time around.
May 8, 2018, 10:25 am
#184
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,742
May 8, 2018, 10:47 am
#185
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Germany
Programs: BA GGL, CCR - TK G
Posts: 809
Status update:
I called the OTA and they could see that my reservation was originally in J/F but now changed to Y/Y by the airline and that they really could not do anything at this point and that I should contact AF directly. I called AF and after a few minutes the agent stated that this was OTA mistake, that they have sold me wrong fare basis. He was kind of blaming me as well, since "you should have realized that you cannot get F-ticket for 1269€"..(well, for average Joe that is quite a lot of money, so I might not share his attitude about that), and asked me to contact the OTA again. I just did that and this time I had agent who was surprisingly confident that they will fix this with AF, and that I shouldn't need to worry about this, "you bought F-class ticket, you will be flying in F-class"! I wish I could share his confidence about this...!
Anyway, he promised that they will get back to me by email as soon as everything is fixed. Now let's see if I ever hear from them...
I called the OTA and they could see that my reservation was originally in J/F but now changed to Y/Y by the airline and that they really could not do anything at this point and that I should contact AF directly. I called AF and after a few minutes the agent stated that this was OTA mistake, that they have sold me wrong fare basis. He was kind of blaming me as well, since "you should have realized that you cannot get F-ticket for 1269€"..(well, for average Joe that is quite a lot of money, so I might not share his attitude about that), and asked me to contact the OTA again. I just did that and this time I had agent who was surprisingly confident that they will fix this with AF, and that I shouldn't need to worry about this, "you bought F-class ticket, you will be flying in F-class"! I wish I could share his confidence about this...!
Anyway, he promised that they will get back to me by email as soon as everything is fixed. Now let's see if I ever hear from them...
Why are airlines actually able to downgrade after they have submitted a ticket.. I have even chosen my first class seat. That's rediculous
I can understand if the tickets are sold by accent. But that's why the airline has to confirm them. Right. If they are confirmed . That's what confirmed means in my stupid eyes
May 8, 2018, 10:59 am
#186
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Germany
Programs: BA GGL, CCR - TK G
Posts: 809
Is there a chance to see my fare class? I can't find a way. I log into af website with my booking code. See the flights. Seats. Everything But don't see where to check which fare class it is. Maybe that makes it reliable .
May 8, 2018, 11:00 am
#187
Join Date: Jun 2015
Programs: Delta GM; FB Plat; HHonors Diamond; Hertz PC; National EE
Posts: 190
Why are airlines actually able to downgrade after they have submitted a ticket.. I have even chosen my first class seat. That's rediculous
I can understand if the tickets are sold by accent. But that's why the airline has to confirm them. Right. If they are confirmed . That's what confirmed means in my stupid eyes
I can understand if the tickets are sold by accent. But that's why the airline has to confirm them. Right. If they are confirmed . That's what confirmed means in my stupid eyes
May 8, 2018, 11:11 am
#188
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: PRG, DRS, VIE
Programs: Marriott Titanium, BA Gold, A3 Gold
Posts: 939
May 8, 2018, 11:51 am
#189
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 20
100 percent. Of course that's the only part where I didn't Screenshot.. But I saw on all of them showing only one seat. And I tried to look for 2. And the price went up to 4000euros. The usual.then I just booked for myself.
Why are airlines actually able to downgrade after they have submitted a ticket.. I have even chosen my first class seat. That's rediculous
I can understand if the tickets are sold by accent. But that's why the airline has to confirm them. Right. If they are confirmed . That's what confirmed means in my stupid eyes
Why are airlines actually able to downgrade after they have submitted a ticket.. I have even chosen my first class seat. That's rediculous
I can understand if the tickets are sold by accent. But that's why the airline has to confirm them. Right. If they are confirmed . That's what confirmed means in my stupid eyes
May 8, 2018, 11:53 am
#190
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 20
100 percent. Of course that's the only part where I didn't Screenshot.. But I saw on all of them showing only one seat. And I tried to look for 2. And the price went up to 4000euros. The usual.then I just booked for myself.
Why are airlines actually able to downgrade after they have submitted a ticket.. I have even chosen my first class seat. That's rediculous
I can understand if the tickets are sold by accent. But that's why the airline has to confirm them. Right. If they are confirmed . That's what confirmed means in my stupid eyes
Why are airlines actually able to downgrade after they have submitted a ticket.. I have even chosen my first class seat. That's rediculous
I can understand if the tickets are sold by accent. But that's why the airline has to confirm them. Right. If they are confirmed . That's what confirmed means in my stupid eyes
May 8, 2018, 11:58 am
#191
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 8
Be a good sport and asume the defeat :-)
May 8, 2018, 12:02 pm
#192
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: AFKL PLT, BA Gold, SK Gold, AY Gold, A3 Silver, LH FTL, IHG Gold, Marriott Silver
Posts: 408
May 8, 2018, 12:10 pm
#193
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: AFKL PLT, BA Gold, SK Gold, AY Gold, A3 Silver, LH FTL, IHG Gold, Marriott Silver
Posts: 408
Status update:
I called the OTA and they could see that my reservation was originally in J/F but now changed to Y/Y by the airline and that they really could not do anything at this point and that I should contact AF directly. I called AF and after a few minutes the agent stated that this was OTA mistake, that they have sold me wrong fare basis. He was kind of blaming me as well, since "you should have realized that you cannot get F-ticket for 1269€"..(well, for average Joe that is quite a lot of money, so I might not share his attitude about that), and asked me to contact the OTA again. I just did that and this time I had agent who was surprisingly confident that they will fix this with AF, and that I shouldn't need to worry about this, "you bought F-class ticket, you will be flying in F-class"! I wish I could share his confidence about this...! Anyway, he promised that they will get back to me by email as soon as everything is fixed. Now let's see if I ever hear from them...
I called the OTA and they could see that my reservation was originally in J/F but now changed to Y/Y by the airline and that they really could not do anything at this point and that I should contact AF directly. I called AF and after a few minutes the agent stated that this was OTA mistake, that they have sold me wrong fare basis. He was kind of blaming me as well, since "you should have realized that you cannot get F-ticket for 1269€"..(well, for average Joe that is quite a lot of money, so I might not share his attitude about that), and asked me to contact the OTA again. I just did that and this time I had agent who was surprisingly confident that they will fix this with AF, and that I shouldn't need to worry about this, "you bought F-class ticket, you will be flying in F-class"! I wish I could share his confidence about this...!
Anyway, he promised that they will get back to me by email as soon as everything is fixed. Now let's see if I ever hear from them...I just got a call from Air France/KLM head office in Amsterdam, they were apologizing that the OTA sold me a wrong ticket in error and that now they have updated my reservation to PE (gee, thanks). I asked if I can get full refund, and the agent confirmed that I'll get full refund, even the OTA service charges will be refunded and if I have any trouble getting it, I could contact AF directly. In a way this all seems to be extremely shady from AF, first confirming the reservation and letting choose F-seats and meals and then suddenly changing everything to Y without any notification, In my field of business, if I make a mistake I take the responsibility of it and suck it up, even if it costs me money. That doesn't seem to be the case with AF and they way they handled this has really left sour taste in my mouth. If I had more time, I would like to challenge them and see what happens...but since my time is limited, I'll just take the refund and move on.
May 8, 2018, 1:03 pm
#194
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 478