No blackout dates?
Mar 8, 2014 | 4:31 pm
#16
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I though you said you "do not intend on getting into another discussion of the interpretation"
Best summarized at the link above. It's in no way equal to SPG's policy. OP, feel free to call and quote the verbiage. Tell us what you hear back.
Best summarized at the link above. It's in no way equal to SPG's policy. OP, feel free to call and quote the verbiage. Tell us what you hear back.
Last edited by CPRich; Mar 8, 2014 at 4:39 pm
Mar 8, 2014 | 4:48 pm
#17
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No hotel for any night (that I know of) is forced to offer every single standard room they have available for awards. A history lesson might be helpful here.
Back before Marriott changed to their 'No Blackout Dates" rule, Marriott had two types of awards. They had their standard awards to which a hotel only had to offer a very small number of room with and didn't necessarily have to offer those awards for every night of the year. Along with that standard award, they also had a 'Stay Anytime" award. Those awards were more like the SPG's last room available, but cost 50% more than normal standard awards.
When Marriott changed their program a few years ago, they did away with those Stay Anytime awards. But they also increased the number of standard award rooms that a hotel had to offer each night. I do believe there is a "process" whereby a hotel can petition Marriott for a reduction in the number of award rooms, but I think that it requires Corp approval.
But the end result is that today, a given hotel does NOT have to offer all standard rooms for awards. They only have to offer a set # each night (which is more than they used to offer back in the earlier days of Marriott' program) and once that number is met, they don't have to offer any more if they don't want to.
Mar 8, 2014 | 6:13 pm
#18
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OP, perhaps this may help:
Back in 2009 we responded to questions/ complaints about hotels manipulating inventory to get around the No Black Out Dates policy: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marri...what-joke.html
I will quote two important points that relate to this thread. Firstly, "hotels do not have the ability to define a standard room on their own; it is defined by corporate and enforced by corporate."
That means extra things tied to the rate, such as breakfast, don't affect the type of room and shouldn't affect reward availability. It also means that hotels can't simply throw a toaster in the room and call it "upgraded", and restrict reward use.
Also posted last year: "redemption room availability is controlled through our global reservations system to ensure hotels comply with the No Blackout Date policy. If you think a hotel is in violation , you can email [email protected] with the specific hotel and dates in question. If the hotel is not in compliance, we will ensure they come back into compliance, book your reservation, and award you 5,000 points for the inconvenience."
I would add that I'm also happy to field those inquiries and complaints by email or PM. I'd go even further in saying that the MR CSR's have become pretty adept with this issue too, if you prefer a faster response that we can give. I know there are probably genuine instances of hotels not playing by the rules, but it seems in most cases on Flyertalk that when a poster gives specifics as to when and where he's trying to book a redemption reservation, the other posters either help him with tips that work to get it booked, or demonstrate that the hotel simply doesn't have the availability. Again, if you encounter a hotel that you think is violating the policy, send it to us; we'll get them in compliance if they are not.
I will quote two important points that relate to this thread. Firstly, "hotels do not have the ability to define a standard room on their own; it is defined by corporate and enforced by corporate."
That means extra things tied to the rate, such as breakfast, don't affect the type of room and shouldn't affect reward availability. It also means that hotels can't simply throw a toaster in the room and call it "upgraded", and restrict reward use.
Also posted last year: "redemption room availability is controlled through our global reservations system to ensure hotels comply with the No Blackout Date policy. If you think a hotel is in violation , you can email [email protected] with the specific hotel and dates in question. If the hotel is not in compliance, we will ensure they come back into compliance, book your reservation, and award you 5,000 points for the inconvenience."
I would add that I'm also happy to field those inquiries and complaints by email or PM. I'd go even further in saying that the MR CSR's have become pretty adept with this issue too, if you prefer a faster response that we can give. I know there are probably genuine instances of hotels not playing by the rules, but it seems in most cases on Flyertalk that when a poster gives specifics as to when and where he's trying to book a redemption reservation, the other posters either help him with tips that work to get it booked, or demonstrate that the hotel simply doesn't have the availability. Again, if you encounter a hotel that you think is violating the policy, send it to us; we'll get them in compliance if they are not.
Mar 10, 2014 | 7:27 am
#19
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When you called did they say that this hotel was granted an exception by corporate? If standard rooms are available, which they are, they can't just decide to restrict award availability on their own; they must have corporate approval! If they don't have a corporate approved exception then press the issue as they should give you an award room since a standard room is available. Insist on speaking to a supervisor if possible and quote the verbiage on award availability. Also send a PM to Marriott Concierge here on FT, who has been rather non-existent of late, so I don't know if they will be of help.
Mar 10, 2014 | 7:30 am
#20
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again there is no requirement that hotels offer 100% of their inventory for 1 full calendar year for award redemptions, the requirement is that awards are offered on every day of the calendar year (Marriott has very specific procedures to ensure hotels comply with the law in this regard)
Mar 10, 2014 | 7:47 am
#21
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Mar 10, 2014 | 8:21 am
#22
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Originally Posted by aaupgrade
OP, perhaps this may help:
Back in 2009 we responded to questions/ complaints about hotels manipulating inventory to get around the No Black Out Dates policy: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marri...what-joke.html
I will quote two important points that relate to this thread. Firstly, "hotels do not have the ability to define a standard room on their own; it is defined by corporate and enforced by corporate."
That means extra things tied to the rate, such as breakfast, don't affect the type of room and shouldn't affect reward availability. It also means that hotels can't simply throw a toaster in the room and call it "upgraded", and restrict reward use.
Also posted last year: "redemption room availability is controlled through our global reservations system to ensure hotels comply with the No Blackout Date policy. If you think a hotel is in violation , you can email [email protected] with the specific hotel and dates in question. If the hotel is not in compliance, we will ensure they come back into compliance, book your reservation, and award you 5,000 points for the inconvenience."
I would add that I'm also happy to field those inquiries and complaints by email or PM. I'd go even further in saying that the MR CSR's have become pretty adept with this issue too, if you prefer a faster response that we can give. I know there are probably genuine instances of hotels not playing by the rules, but it seems in most cases on Flyertalk that when a poster gives specifics as to when and where he's trying to book a redemption reservation, the other posters either help him with tips that work to get it booked, or demonstrate that the hotel simply doesn't have the availability. Again, if you encounter a hotel that you think is violating the policy, send it to us; we'll get them in compliance if they are not.
I will quote two important points that relate to this thread. Firstly, "hotels do not have the ability to define a standard room on their own; it is defined by corporate and enforced by corporate."
That means extra things tied to the rate, such as breakfast, don't affect the type of room and shouldn't affect reward availability. It also means that hotels can't simply throw a toaster in the room and call it "upgraded", and restrict reward use.
Also posted last year: "redemption room availability is controlled through our global reservations system to ensure hotels comply with the No Blackout Date policy. If you think a hotel is in violation , you can email [email protected] with the specific hotel and dates in question. If the hotel is not in compliance, we will ensure they come back into compliance, book your reservation, and award you 5,000 points for the inconvenience."
I would add that I'm also happy to field those inquiries and complaints by email or PM. I'd go even further in saying that the MR CSR's have become pretty adept with this issue too, if you prefer a faster response that we can give. I know there are probably genuine instances of hotels not playing by the rules, but it seems in most cases on Flyertalk that when a poster gives specifics as to when and where he's trying to book a redemption reservation, the other posters either help him with tips that work to get it booked, or demonstrate that the hotel simply doesn't have the availability. Again, if you encounter a hotel that you think is violating the policy, send it to us; we'll get them in compliance if they are not.
You're right about me confusing the Plat 48 hour guarantee, my bad. I will modify that post.
Mar 10, 2014 | 8:26 am
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 587
Thanks for the follow-ups. I'm pretty sure what is happening to me is that simply all the rooms that were offered on award have long since booked up ... But, I will look again and see if it's worth reaching out to your contact.
Mar 10, 2014 | 8:32 am
#24
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2012
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The e-mail address is undeliverable.
Mar 10, 2014 | 11:29 am
#25
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LOL (FYI - that's directed at Marriott, not you). I'm sorry that email address didn't work. Try PMing Marriott Concierge, although that may be fruitless too, as we haven't heard from them in months.
Between Marriott's indifference to the FT community and an IT department that thinks more clicks are better, pretty web pages are what matters, and can't program basic functionality in their web site, and come up lacking with regard to testing "enhancements" prior to web site upgrades it is no wonder that the email address they provided doesn't work. An undeliverable address seems to hint at Marriott just not giving a hoot about customer concerns of this nature. JMHO
Perhaps someone else with Marriott connections could be helpful and provide a more current email address where one can hope to get concerns of this nature addressed.
Between Marriott's indifference to the FT community and an IT department that thinks more clicks are better, pretty web pages are what matters, and can't program basic functionality in their web site, and come up lacking with regard to testing "enhancements" prior to web site upgrades it is no wonder that the email address they provided doesn't work. An undeliverable address seems to hint at Marriott just not giving a hoot about customer concerns of this nature. JMHO
Perhaps someone else with Marriott connections could be helpful and provide a more current email address where one can hope to get concerns of this nature addressed.
Mar 10, 2014 | 11:33 am
#26
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 587
I just e-mailed the main e-mail, which got back to me promptly and said that because of the big music festival, this was an exceptional time and therefore no points rooms were available. It's as I expected. Now, I just have to decide if I really want to pay $390 plus tax to stay at Winter Haven or use my free certificate at the Marriott Miami International Airport. Thanks for everyone's help.
Mar 10, 2014 | 12:47 pm
#27
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Sorry it didn't work out. Others were right and I was wrong. In that regard, what Marriott says on their web site with regard to black out dates is tantamount to lying in my opinion.
As a LT Plat, I'll continue to stay at Marriott, but the respect I used to have for them has dwindled in the past couple years due to this and other factors including the web site issues, plethora of Golds flooding the elite ranks, diluting benefits (bye bye BOGOs), absence of presence of FT, etc.
If I ever do return to 50+ nights of travel/year I may have to explore SPG, but for now I'll just use the Marriott benefits I have for my 10-30 nights each year (that's what happens when you buy a place where you used to stay 50 nights per year).
As a LT Plat, I'll continue to stay at Marriott, but the respect I used to have for them has dwindled in the past couple years due to this and other factors including the web site issues, plethora of Golds flooding the elite ranks, diluting benefits (bye bye BOGOs), absence of presence of FT, etc.
If I ever do return to 50+ nights of travel/year I may have to explore SPG, but for now I'll just use the Marriott benefits I have for my 10-30 nights each year (that's what happens when you buy a place where you used to stay 50 nights per year).
Mar 10, 2014 | 1:48 pm
#28
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 587
Thanks for your help. As an aside, I was able to switch from cash to a points room at Blue Moon (gotten it confused with WinterHaven). Very small room, though. So now just gotta decide if I want free certificate but at airport or a lotta points but on sobe. Anyway, thanks for everything. Sorry to hear you have moved on somewhat from Marriott, but reviewing the policies did make me realize that SPG is a bit better than Marriott in this regard.
Mar 11, 2014 | 1:48 am
#29
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I very much remember this debate on FT in 2009, when no blackout dates were launched. Before the launch I found standard redemption availability pretty good, but it could be tough to find 7 consecutive nights (then the Marriott sweet spot) of availability at many hotels, the change to no blackout dates was meant to improve this, and in my experience it has.
No blackout dates means every hotel has to offer a pretty high percentage of standard rooms for redemption every night of the year but can by consulting with corporate reduce to a much lower percentage for a few nights (but only a few) annually.
As such this means that every hotel offers award nights EVERY night of the year, hence there are "no blackout dates" but some nights are so restricted for award availability you will have to book very early.
This differs from SPGs "last standard room availability" which means that all hotels offer all standard rooms for redemption all year round, effectively a super-no-blackout rule.
No blackout dates means every hotel has to offer a pretty high percentage of standard rooms for redemption every night of the year but can by consulting with corporate reduce to a much lower percentage for a few nights (but only a few) annually.
As such this means that every hotel offers award nights EVERY night of the year, hence there are "no blackout dates" but some nights are so restricted for award availability you will have to book very early.
This differs from SPGs "last standard room availability" which means that all hotels offer all standard rooms for redemption all year round, effectively a super-no-blackout rule.
Mar 11, 2014 | 10:46 am
#30
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I would be more worked up about this if I ever actually had trouble finding award rooms when I wanted them. I don't. Probably because we tend to book quite far in advance for our big trips, due to needing to get air awards very far out.