margarita girl

I think it's sad that OP thinks his great stays can be attributed to Bonfire. I've also had some amazing stays since Aug 19 (much like I've received for the past 12 years with SPG) even at legacy Marriott properties (JW Emerald Bay in Phu Quoc and Ritz Carlton in Singapore come to mind), but I give the credit to generous properties and me asking nicely for what I wanted. This is in spite of Arne, Bonfire and Marriott's garbage IT.

kaizen7

With this, sometimes hotel upgrade is just same room category on higher floor ..... cant blame the guest if this happen

2019 the number of elites will be bigger .... but the hotel number is also increasing. so it evens out.
I agree about some elites that get the status with old spg qualifications.
in 2020 however, this legacy spg qualified elites will be gone and everything should be back to "normal"

Many of Bonvoy benefit is actually not guaranteed ... upgrades ... SNA ... your 24 ... Late check out on resort properties (sometimes non resort also tries not to give these) ... even those no blackout date policy is not guaranteed ....
And yet the qualification to reach certain elite level is guaranteed. Member cant say to Bonvoy : sorry, 100 night and 20k is not available this year, I only have 50 night and 10k spending and want to retain my ambassador tier.

And for the room status, the problem is sometimes the said suites still listed as available in the app. That will create the image that hotel being stingy
Added that some hotel manage to give suite upgrade after being confronted with these fact reinforce the idea that hotel tries not to upgrade.
(Furthermore certain hotel put up notes about no suite upgrade for plats)

Personally I never ask or demand about upgrade on check in as I book the room I am happy with.
But I did check with the apps to see what room is available to get a rough idea about hotel occupancy.

I believe Bonvoy need to make sure that hotel handed the elite benefit appropriately and not try to being stingy for whatever reason.

I agree hotel cant create suite out of nothing if they have too many elites checking in or they running full occupancy.
But hotel could acknowledge the lack of upgrades and perhaps provide some kind of "compensation" for this.
The compensation ... maybe hotel credit for f&b, or even extra drink voucher.

JBord

Well, they could. And maybe some do. But no one should expect them to. That would be going above and beyond the Marriott rules and up to the individual property.

Again, it seems that some people here have built unrealistic and inappropriate expectations. If you're a frequent flier who purchases a coach seat, you expect to sit in that coach seat unless there's a F seat available and no one above you on the upgrade list. Now, perhaps it's more transparent because you can see the empty seat and usually even see the upgrade list. I can't see those things at a hotel. But it's the same concept. When I was a high-level elite at UA for several years, I was upgraded to F a little over 50% of the time. It seems like some people here are upset every time they aren't upgraded to a suite (not just a room upgrade, but a suite).

There's no compensation when I'm stuck in coach, and there isn't any promised when I'm not upgraded at a Marriott. In both cases, if the company wants to compensate me in some way, I'll be surprised and happy to accept it. But I shouldn't expect it.

JBord

Yes, the IT problems some are experiencing is a separate topic. The issue with inconsistent hotel stays has nothing to do with Marriott. It's just how the industry works. You have individual properties...some are owned by corporate, some are franchisees. That was my experience at SPG too. I remember one specific horrible experience at a Sheraton in Ohio that I won't name. And one great experience at a Sheraton in Dallas. Then another experience at a Houston Sheraton a couple months ago where they over-charged me for the drinks we had in the concierge lounge.

My point is that we don't need to change every thread into another Marriott-bashing thread. There's value in sharing both good and bad experiences in this forum. The OP has had good experiences, it doesn't seem appropriate to try to discredit him just because you haven't.

itravelalot

Some airlines give their top frequent flyers free drinks or snacks when seated in economy. It wouldn't cost Marriott or the owners to offer a free drink (especially nonalcoholic) to every guest with titanium or ambassador statuses, especially at properties without a lounge. Charging a guest $1.50 for a Pepsi because you don't have a lounge or the lounge is closed is tacky.

JBord

This is different than saying you get a food voucher because they couldn't upgrade you. I think what you're suggesting makes sense, at least for properties that SHOULD have a lounge but don't, or when it's closed for construction, etc. Typically you'll get a restaurant breakfast, but that doesn't really make up for the free waters and soft drinks in the lounge.

I will say, I've been offered free drinks and even free vouchers at both legacy Marriott and SPG properties for certain annoyances, like my room wasn't ready (even before the posted check in time). A FS Marriott in Florida gave me a free lunch in the lobby bar when my room wasn't ready at 12:30. But right now, it seems that's up to the property and not related to a missing benefit like a lounge.

CIT85

As others have commented, it's very much property specific.

I was upgraded twice to suites at JW Marriott Tomorrow Square Shanghai. Then I was "upgraded" from City view to water view Deluxe Room at Copenhagen Marriott (when app showed Junior Suite available for sale), not even on Executive Level.

itravelalot

Sometimes the upgrade is actually a downgrade. I have paid for a room on the club lounge floor at the Sheraton Detroit Metro Airport only to receive a suite, albeit a massive suite, with a parking lot view on a lower level floor. Technically, it's an upgrade because I booked a room and received a suite, but many people might prefer a regular room on the club floor over a suite on a lower floor. Meanwhile, the Renaissance St. Louis Airport Hotel didn't seem to understand that assigning me the exact category I booked wasn't an upgrade.

margarita girl

I've posted reviews in various property threads where I've had excellent stays, so I'm not afraid to post about my good experiences.

OP may want to change his thread title.

clublounger

That's offensive. If you couldn't write it on FlyerTalk, then you shouldn't link to it.

kaizen7

The main difference is ... airline frequent flyer programmes usually never list free upgrades as their benefit. I join Virgin Australia Velocity, Singapore Air Krisflyer and Emirates Skywards, and all of them never listed free upgrades as benefit. (and pretty much most of their tier benefits are guaranteed eg extra baggage allowance, free seat selection fee etc)
However, Bonvoy (and other hotel loyalty program) did list them as benefit even if it comes with disclaimed "when available".

Like I mentioned before, the problem arise when hotel didnt upgrade members and yet still listed the higher category rooms as available. And it become even worse when hotel acquiesce to the said elites demand by upgrading the complained members to the available suite.
Since there are many cases like this, then it will be easy to accuse the hotel being stingy.

JBord

Fair enough, although I'm sure you got his point in using it. Too bad it has a negative connotation for some people...for most of us it's just a dumb name.

Your first point doesn't match the scenario we're discussing. Some airlines DO post upgrades as an elite benefit (UA is one I'm very familiar with). So do some hotels. That's what we should compare, apples to apples not to oranges. It would be a totally different discussion if Marriott didn't list upgrades as a benefit. Likely everyone here would be delighted whenever they got one rather than upset they don't. So my prior point is (most) people don't go ballistic if they get a free F upgrade 50% of the time, but some here seem to think they should get it 100% of the time, regardless of what the other circumstances are or who else is already booked at the hotel.

But your point about hotels not upgrading when they should is fair. I had one instance at a legacy Marriott property (which I posted about in that hotel's thread, where I was given a lesser room than I booked. The hotel insisted there were no other rooms available. So I calmly brought up the room/bed guarantee and the compensation...and magically a room became available a little later.

These are problems with individual properties, not some overall conspiracy on Marriott's part to screw elites. So if it's the former, people should post their experience and specifically name the property, and present their proof that the hotel isn't following the rules. But people here seem to be blaming their experiences on the latter...and there are enough of us that get some upgrades sometimes that there's no logic to the conspiracy theory.

pinniped

Then I'll repeat the hard truth back to loyalty programs in general: if the benefit is either never available, extremely rare, or subject to a ton of opt-outs by franchisees, stop using it in your marketing materials.

Stop showing us photos of a St. Regis overwater villa if it's actually never available as an award. Stop highlighting types of upgrades that are rarely if ever available. Where benefits *are* available, don't take them away. If there's some operational reason the benefit is too difficult to provide anymore, then replace it with something of similar value from the guest's perspective. (Example: providing a good breakfast option when the hotel doesn't have a lounge.) Stop setting expectations of the membership base that the program is way more generous than it actually is and maybe there won't be so many "issues" with overentitled guests. @:-)

There was a point in time when no one expected upgrades. If you wanted a suite, you booked one. There were no "points" to get free rooms - you simply paid for one, unless you had some kind of industry insider or travel agent hooking you up. But then the hotels themselves introduced this entire concept of loyalty programs, elite status, award rooms, and free upgrades. (Riffing off of airline programs that had been invented a few years earlier, no doubt.) So here we are. A little hard to put this cat back into the bag, but the blame for high expectations isn't entirely with the guest.

(FWIW, Upgrades have never been my bone to pick with Marriott. I've been around long enough to know it's never been an upgrade-centric program going back 20+ years, mainly because so many Marriott hotels have few if any true suites. But they do still advertise upgrades and are no doubt important to many guests.)

kaizen7

I would say airlines that promise upgrade for their elites are pretty rare.
3 that I frequently use and 2 that I join but rarely use never list them as benefit.

Agreed .. some people just happily blame Marriott for everything even for something that never exist in SPG time (lounge access at LC and StR properties)

But then again, Marriott as corporate should be able to do more to enforce their loyalty program benefits to the participating hotels
The case of hotel that put up note about not upgrading elite members to suite is pretty much show how property deliberately flaunts the progam t&c.
And also the common occurence about a suite magically appears after elite member "ask" them at check in.

Interestingly ... I joined a small not very well known loyalty program. Global Hotel Alliance Discovery (only have few hundred hotel participating)
Their listed member benefit is one level upgrade for platinums (really easy to get as it only need 10 nights stays and they count up to 2 rooms for credit) and somehow all my stays with these hotels always get upgraded as per program t&c or even exceeded it
And they send a survey after every stay asking about elite benefits received at the hotel.

I agree that their t&c is easier to fulfil as it only 1 cat upgrade. unlike Bonvoys upgrade to the best room including select suite which can cause plenty of different interpretations.(sometimes wrong one)

kaizen7

Very interesting.
Loyalty program is the one who publish the benefit list for each tiers and the qualifications
So it would be expected that members joining and qualifying for certain tiers based on those published benefits.

And to make their loyalty program more attractive hotel then promise even more ... and that make members expectation even higher.

Like I mentioned before .... some of these elite benefits comes with "if available" tag

Even redeeming points is not guaranteed as the no blackout date terms still comes with some limitation.
Upgrade ... Platinum Elite Members and above receive a complimentary upgrade to the best available room subject to availability for the entire length of stay at the time of check-in ... and sometimes must be asked then an uppgrade magically appears.
SNA ... Suite Night Award use is based upon availability of the requested suite or premium room ... I guess if someone try to apply them for December stays and it get rejected, the SNA will go to waste
Your 24 ... this benefit is reserved for ambassador members .. and yet : Your24 benefits are subject to availability and may only be requested in connection with a stay.

Quite normal to have elites pissed off by these