CCIE_Flyer

I see this sort of comment often and it always makes me laugh a little. Can you imagine if a business only invoiced the Government for its cost alone? It would be a nonprofit and not a business, no? This is a perfectly legit and ethical business model. Basically, if I pay Johnny $10/hr to mow the grass on an Army base, then I'm going to bill the government that cost plus an agreed to fee (typically either an incentive fee based on performance, or a flat agreed to fixed fee). These days I often see fees in the 5% range, +/- a few percentage points.

On the other hand, if a contractor or vendor attempts to invoice the government for additional fees that were not agreed to in advance, at the very least the invoice will be rejected flat out. And if the Government finds that there was an attempt to defraud (as in what hotelboy advocates and what the subject property has done), then very likely someone is going to prison.

C17PSGR

Interesting ... making a reservation for tonight at the property shows:

1 room(s) for 1 night(s)

• 
  Prices in USD
• Sunday, April 21, 2019
  • 87.00
• Total cash rate
  87.00
• Estimated government taxes and fees
  10.68
• Total for stay in hotel's currency
  97.68 USD

No reference to energy fee

OP -- this property appears to be owned/operated by Mlem Properties Inc., which is based in Chandler. If you do make a complaint with the AZ Attorney General, I'd make it against MLEM so it goes to the right people.

HMPS

This is true when contracts are enforced.
One presumes you have heard of a $157 hammer that you can buy at Home depot for $ 12 ! Hence the Govt contracts....most of DOD contracts have built in safe guards in favour of the vendor for "cost overruns". And notoriously they exceed. A corollary is a senior Pentagon official in charge of contracting who upon retirement shows up as a V P in the vendor's org chart !
And yes , funnily enough I made the point of making profit by calculating cost and adding a profit. He is all of seven year old !

HNLbasedFlyer

Then what does the and fees mean?

Often1

If a US-based issuer, e.g. bank, one may, of course, initiate a partial chargeback. I don't think that we need to worry about having one's account cancelled on this one !

TBD

Slightly off-topic, but still a 'hidden' charge. I got a hit on my credit card a few days ago from a Sheraton Grand for receiving a package. Not only did the hotel not inform me of the charge, they didn't even put it on my folio. I just noticed the $2 fee on my credit card a few days later. Had to jump through a bunch of hoops just to figure out what it was - and still haven't been able to get through to an actual person at the hotel. It's ridiculous.

Perhaps we should be comparing unscrupulous businesses to Marriott rather than used card salesmen ...

HMPS

Looks like a vigilant night auditor got you !
PS: The car sales persons are more tightly regulated than a majority of others....Raise the roof to get the $ 2 back BUT ADD your time and headaches.

LIH Prem

It is possible to dispute a charge that includes something that wasn't disclosed up front and you didn't agree to. In the form you fill out, provide evidence and explanation that you didn't agree to an undisclosed $3 (plus taxes?) energy surcharge since it wasn't disclosed at the time the of the reservation and include the reservation confirmation as evidence.

When you check in to a hotel you generally agree to delayed charges for items you consume (for example a minibar item), but a fee like this has to be disclosed up front at the time the reservation was made.

I'd follow up with the property first and if they don't issue the refund, I'd do the credit card dispute. Yes, it's worth it IMO.

Not sure where you got the Bonvoy account nullification thing from. In the USA, you are entitled to dispute any credit card charge. Disputing a charge doesn't mean you are going to "win" the dispute. Nor would it lead to nullification of your Bonvoy account. You could get Marriott involved in the dispute if you wanted to since the hotel is obviously out of compliance if they are charging this undisclosed fee, but clearly the operator of the hotel doesn't care since they are leaving Marriott and reflagging. So in any event, it's not a frivolous dispute.

-David

dtremit

Shh! Don't give them ideas!

(Though I might pay to have a decent LED bulb in every room; I still see way too many CFLs with awful CRIs.)

CCIE_Flyer

I got it both from the Marriott Bonvoy Terms & Conditions and from first-hand accounts (fairly certain it's been discussed on more than one occasion here as well). Many members continue to chime in as to the ability to request a partial charge-back, which as of my original posting I was unsure about. In any event...

1.7.a. Cancelling or Suspending Membership Accounts

i. Cancelling by Member. A Member may cancel his/her membership in the Loyalty Program at any time by sending written notice of cancellation to Member Support . All unredeemed Points, Redemption Awards, and promotional Awards as well as achieved member status, including Elite Status and Lifetime Elite Status, will be forfeited immediately and may not be reinstated or transferred.

ii. Cancelling or Suspending by the Company. The Company may cancel a Member’s accumulated Points, suspend Loyalty Program benefits, suspend Elite Membership Status, suspend Lifetime Elite Membership Status (which will subsequently also remove protection against the forfeiture of Points should the member become inactive as described in Section 1.5.d. or cancel a Member’s Account at any time with immediate effect and without written notice, for any reason and in the Company's sole discretion including, without limitation, if the Company believes the Member has:

A. Acted in a manner inconsistent with applicable laws, regulations, ordinances;

B. Failed to pay any hotel or other bill when due to the Company or a Participating Property or failed to fulfill a Marriott Vacation Club, Marriott Grand Residence Club or a Vistana Network financial obligation;

C. Acted in an inappropriate, fraudulent, abusive or hostile manner;

D. Breached or violated any of these Program Rules or the Website Terms of Use;

E. Fraudulently claimed eligibility to earn benefits through Marriott BonvoyTM Events; or

F. Engaged in any misconduct or wrongdoing in connection with the Loyalty Program including, without limitation, with respect to Points, Elite Night Credit, Redemption Award usage, promotional Award usage, or any other Loyalty Program Member benefits.

ryan182

Hotels are private property, no reason that the management of a hotel cannot trespass a guest from their property in these new glorious Marriott days if they see fit.

There's a reasonable and valid argument that the company is not due that fee as it was not disclosed - what if it was $300 and not $3; by this logic a hotel can add charge they want without having the guest agree to it and we have to just pay or lose our account? I think not.

Also I doubt most CC companies are not going to even bother with a $3 chargeback, it costs them more than that to process it with the merchant and will likely just eat the charge and issue the credit. I've had a partial chargeback with Amex that was ~$20 and they just closed the dispute and issued the credit immediately, there is probably different thresholds for this based on the card issuer and customer in question but $3 is probably below the "is this worth our time" threshold for most.

This x100. The owner is probably playing the numbers and figuring most people won't notice the charge and/or figure its not worth the effort.

CCIE_Flyer

ryan182

Sorry I misunderstood your post as was after that discussion and I didn't realize you were referring to a complete chargeback, which clearly is not ethical or appropriate.

CCIE_Flyer

In posting the Ts&Cs reference, I should perhaps have noted that I was merely responding to the singular question as to where I'd gotten the idea that a Bonvoy account can be nullified over an unpaid hotel bill - and that partially charging back for an undisclosed fee almost certainly would not be treated as such. I suppose this all ultimately stems from my earlier lack of understanding that partial chargebacks are a thing; apologies to all for that confusion on my part.

Cheers.

SkiAdcock

I think we're all agreed that charging a fee (re: of type) if not disclosed upfront is unethical. Also, now we know that partial charge backs are possible. Good information.

Originally I thought since the property is leaving the MAR family & MAR itself rescinded energy surcharges 18 years ago that the thread should be closed. But glad it stayed open so that FTers know partial charge backs are possible and that MAR itself discontinued energy surcharge fees 18 years ago. This was/is a rogue property wrt energy surcharges.

I would encourage those who have been hit w/ the fee at this property to do the partial chargeback & also to post on social media, giving others a heads up.

Cheers.