Marriott Suite Upgrade Policy (New)
Aug 23, 2018, 6:36 pm
#91
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Marriott didn't buy Starwood for our Four Points or Element hotels that are in the suburbs. Marriott bought Starwood for the crown jewels - the relatively top-heavy higher end property as well as the SPG membership. For former SPG members, we see it as self evidence that we have a higher portion of superior hotels because Marriott members were buying so many travel packages and didn't attach a hotel with them because they wanted to wait till after merger to attach it to a SPG hotel. You don't see lots of posts and threads on Flyertalk from SPG members trying to redeem nights and complaining about redeeming nights at a Ritz Carlton (for example). But there are tones from Marriott member that is trying to get in on St Regis Bora Bora or St Regis Maldives...etc. Between SPG and Marriott members, we do have some membership cultural differences. Most SPG members would have just used the usual "get fifth night free" and book 5, 10, 15 days on the property - its a very good deal with good availability. We don't see the need to get the best deal ever existed. Part of the Marriott culture is to play the max value game - so they are jumping from points to travel certs and then hope they can get 7 night and it got blew up in the face with so much bitterness.
We are now merged so it's sort of like getting along with step siblings. Both Marriott and Starwood have their share of road warriors. The gap between the Westin urban center staying road warrior vs the Fairview Inn suburb staying road warrior isn't that great. They both wear suits and I bet they both know enough etiquette - there maybe caviar in the lounge room but one will still grab the veggies (because they don't like the caviar) and the other will still grab the pizza (because they don't like the caviar) and I will grab the cookies (because I also don't like caviar).
I think the unspoken tension is about social-economic class the composition of both memberships. Families that routinely stay in Fairview/Residence Inn are different than those families that routinely stay in Sheraton/Westin and further different that those families that routinely stay in Ritz/St Regis/Luxury Collection. Marriott membership have proportionally lot more of those families that stays in Fairview/Residence Inn than those that stay in JW Marriott/Ritz. The SPG families proportionally have more staying in Sheraton/Westin brands than Four Point or Luxury Collection. There are behavioral differences when families that normally stay in Sheraton/Westin and show up at a Ritz/St Regis/Luxury Collection compared to those families that normally stay in Ritz/St Regis. I'm generalizing here, the difference is there but it's more subtle - like you subconsciously know if that family been around these lounges or that family don't come to these lounge often. Now when a family that normally stay is Fairview/Residence Inn that stay in a Ritz/St Regis..etc. You can tell by the disrumption of harmony in the area - louder, eating like there is no tomorrow, grabbing generous portions of the most expensive stuff even if they don't like the taste. You try to be polite and you hope they are less loud by giving the parent a "death stare" and it doesn't work because the class difference is too great and they don't come here frequent enough to know the etiquette.
SPG members are worried our lounges especially in the higher end property will have to deal with influx of the above mentioned types of family coming in. It's less about the business road warriors that probably have experience and know-how in eating in $200 per person dinners (forks) and $8 of KFC meals (hands).
Perhaps those former members in the Ritz Carlton Club program members can shed some light on what happened after Marriott bought them. Did Marriott members changed the Ritz Carton culture? Did the lounges/breakfast restaurant get nosier or more unruly? Are our fears unfounded?
We are now merged so it's sort of like getting along with step siblings. Both Marriott and Starwood have their share of road warriors. The gap between the Westin urban center staying road warrior vs the Fairview Inn suburb staying road warrior isn't that great. They both wear suits and I bet they both know enough etiquette - there maybe caviar in the lounge room but one will still grab the veggies (because they don't like the caviar) and the other will still grab the pizza (because they don't like the caviar) and I will grab the cookies (because I also don't like caviar).
I think the unspoken tension is about social-economic class the composition of both memberships. Families that routinely stay in Fairview/Residence Inn are different than those families that routinely stay in Sheraton/Westin and further different that those families that routinely stay in Ritz/St Regis/Luxury Collection. Marriott membership have proportionally lot more of those families that stays in Fairview/Residence Inn than those that stay in JW Marriott/Ritz. The SPG families proportionally have more staying in Sheraton/Westin brands than Four Point or Luxury Collection. There are behavioral differences when families that normally stay in Sheraton/Westin and show up at a Ritz/St Regis/Luxury Collection compared to those families that normally stay in Ritz/St Regis. I'm generalizing here, the difference is there but it's more subtle - like you subconsciously know if that family been around these lounges or that family don't come to these lounge often. Now when a family that normally stay is Fairview/Residence Inn that stay in a Ritz/St Regis..etc. You can tell by the disrumption of harmony in the area - louder, eating like there is no tomorrow, grabbing generous portions of the most expensive stuff even if they don't like the taste. You try to be polite and you hope they are less loud by giving the parent a "death stare" and it doesn't work because the class difference is too great and they don't come here frequent enough to know the etiquette.
SPG members are worried our lounges especially in the higher end property will have to deal with influx of the above mentioned types of family coming in. It's less about the business road warriors that probably have experience and know-how in eating in $200 per person dinners (forks) and $8 of KFC meals (hands).
Perhaps those former members in the Ritz Carlton Club program members can shed some light on what happened after Marriott bought them. Did Marriott members changed the Ritz Carton culture? Did the lounges/breakfast restaurant get nosier or more unruly? Are our fears unfounded?
I don't have any problem at all with people who ordinarily stay at a Fairfield or Four Points using hard-earned points to get a stay at a St Regis or W or Luxury Collection hotel. I think that's one of the best attributes from the SPG program, and I think it's great that Marriott members now get to enjoy those options. That isn't much different than me using Sheraton, Le Meridien, Westin, and even Courtyard and Four Points stays for business only to stay at more luxury brands for leisure.
Just because people can afford or not afford something doesn't mean they necessarily will behave with any more or less class at a hotel. That's prejudice speaking, I think. We've all seen rich people in the White House who have no class, and we've all seen poor people who are the most decent and respectful people in the world.
My husband can afford to stay in a St Regis but loves a lounge at a Marriott. I despise lounge. But his affinity for and my dislike of lounges has nothing to do with class.
I think some are worried about influxes of people affecting their upgrade chances as much as crowded lounges. As this is an upgrade thread, that is understandable. But change happens. Also, there's so many more properties now available to all of us, even in the upscale and luxury sectors, that I'm not too worried.
In the end, people can worry until the cows come home--and it won't make a lick of difference. If people want to bring groceries to their rooms to save money, what do I care? Have at it! if people want to buy bottles of water so they don't get overcharged by the hotel, so be it. Who cares? If people don't like a crowded lounge, then feel free to use the hotel restaurant.
Aug 23, 2018, 6:39 pm
#92
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Marriott didn't buy Starwood for our Four Points or Element hotels that are in the suburbs. Marriott bought Starwood for the crown jewels - the relatively top-heavy higher end property as well as the SPG membership.
I think the unspoken tension is about social-economic class the composition of both memberships. Families that routinely stay in Fairview/Residence Inn are different than those families that routinely stay in Sheraton/Westin and further different that those families that routinely stay in Ritz/St Regis/Luxury Collection.
SPG members are worried our lounges especially in the higher end property will have to deal with influx of the above mentioned types of family coming in. It's less about the business road warriors that probably have experience and know-how in eating in $200 per person dinners (forks) and $8 of KFC meals (hands).
Perhaps those former members in the Ritz Carlton Club program members can shed some light on what happened after Marriott bought them. Did Marriott members changed the Ritz Carton culture? Did the lounges/breakfast restaurant get nosier or more unruly? Are our fears unfounded?
I think the unspoken tension is about social-economic class the composition of both memberships. Families that routinely stay in Fairview/Residence Inn are different than those families that routinely stay in Sheraton/Westin and further different that those families that routinely stay in Ritz/St Regis/Luxury Collection.
SPG members are worried our lounges especially in the higher end property will have to deal with influx of the above mentioned types of family coming in. It's less about the business road warriors that probably have experience and know-how in eating in $200 per person dinners (forks) and $8 of KFC meals (hands).
Perhaps those former members in the Ritz Carlton Club program members can shed some light on what happened after Marriott bought them. Did Marriott members changed the Ritz Carton culture? Did the lounges/breakfast restaurant get nosier or more unruly? Are our fears unfounded?
Unfortunately, while there is no data to support this socio-economic theory, I do appreciate you stating it in the open as its quite clear that your view is shared by some on the SPG board on FT.and believe they are better educated, have more money, and are better looking than those of us who stay at Marriott's. I'll hope we can move past this elitism ... I don't need to debate my education, my passport stamps, finances, experience with interacting with those in high levels of business, politics, or military sectors, or otherwise with anyone. I can tell you, however, that we're a pretty friendly group here on the Marriott board who like sharing information and helping each other with travel experiences. Beyond being nice people, it's also apparent that the group on the Marriott board is well-educated and well-traveled.
So ... can we move on past these stereotypes ...
Aug 23, 2018, 6:44 pm
#93
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Now when a family that normally stay is Fairview/Residence Inn that stay in a Ritz/St Regis..etc. You can tell by the disrumption of harmony in the area - louder, eating like there is no tomorrow, grabbing generous portions of the most expensive stuff even if they don't like the taste....
SPG members are worried our lounges especially in the higher end property will have to deal with influx of the above mentioned types of family coming in. It's less about the business road warriors that probably have experience and know-how in eating in $200 per person dinners (forks) and $8 of KFC meals (hands).
Perhaps those former members in the Ritz Carlton Club program members can shed some light on what happened after Marriott bought them. Did Marriott members changed the Ritz Carton culture? Did the lounges/breakfast restaurant get nosier or more unruly? Are our fears unfounded?
SPG members are worried our lounges especially in the higher end property will have to deal with influx of the above mentioned types of family coming in. It's less about the business road warriors that probably have experience and know-how in eating in $200 per person dinners (forks) and $8 of KFC meals (hands).
Perhaps those former members in the Ritz Carlton Club program members can shed some light on what happened after Marriott bought them. Did Marriott members changed the Ritz Carton culture? Did the lounges/breakfast restaurant get nosier or more unruly? Are our fears unfounded?
My friend, yes we are both SPG legacy folks but if you are talking about hotel restaurants and these "fairfield folks" are eating like there is no tomorrow at St Regis/Luxury collection/W then it means they are wealthy and dont give a damn about what other people think and good on them.
Im sorry but what have this have anything to do with MR promising to upgrade us to Standard Suites at legacy MR properties if there is availability?
Aug 23, 2018, 6:45 pm
#94
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Aug 23, 2018, 9:42 pm
#95
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Aug 23, 2018, 9:53 pm
#96
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Aug 23, 2018, 10:13 pm
#97
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It's the Marriott Southfield outside Detroit. With 223 rooms and only 3 suites. I doubt the suites are particularly impressive.
All suites are not made equal. All suite upgrades are not made equal, either.
There is a significant difference between a suite upgrade at a suburban Marriott or Sheraton or small town Courtyard/Four Points...and a major city/resort Marriott, Renaissance, Westin, Le Meridien, etc. And there's an even more significant difference between those and a suite at a W, let alone a Luxury Collection or St Regis hotel (or Ritz-Carlton).
I've been upgraded to suites at many brands like Four Points, Sheraton, Marriott, Renaissance, Le Meridien, Westin, Hyatt, etc. They aren't even close to being as nice or impressive as suites at W, St. Regis, and the like.
Therein lies some of the non sequitur challenges of 1:1 comparisons.
All suites are not made equal. All suite upgrades are not made equal, either.
There is a significant difference between a suite upgrade at a suburban Marriott or Sheraton or small town Courtyard/Four Points...and a major city/resort Marriott, Renaissance, Westin, Le Meridien, etc. And there's an even more significant difference between those and a suite at a W, let alone a Luxury Collection or St Regis hotel (or Ritz-Carlton).
I've been upgraded to suites at many brands like Four Points, Sheraton, Marriott, Renaissance, Le Meridien, Westin, Hyatt, etc. They aren't even close to being as nice or impressive as suites at W, St. Regis, and the like.
Therein lies some of the non sequitur challenges of 1:1 comparisons.
Last edited by bhrubin; Aug 24, 2018 at 1:06 am
Aug 23, 2018, 10:29 pm
#99
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I’ve heard of it. The 5 Star status was an unpublished highest “Global Services/Concierge Key” status level reserved for VIPs and “friends of Bill Marriott” types.
I’m aware that some Marriott Plat Premier people saw themselves upgraded to 5 Star Plat Premier with Ambassador status during the system merger. Many, as far as I can tell, found that to be a fleeting artifact of the system merge’s glitch’s and mistakes. But I’m sure a few actually have the 5 Star status.
There’s always an unpublished superior status.
I’m aware that some Marriott Plat Premier people saw themselves upgraded to 5 Star Plat Premier with Ambassador status during the system merger. Many, as far as I can tell, found that to be a fleeting artifact of the system merge’s glitch’s and mistakes. But I’m sure a few actually have the 5 Star status.
There’s always an unpublished superior status.
Aug 23, 2018, 10:34 pm
#100
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I’ve heard of it. The 5 Star status was an unpublished highest “Global Services/Concierge Key” status level reserved for VIPs and “friends of Bill Marriott” types.
I’m aware that some Marriott Plat Premier people saw themselves upgraded to 5 Star Plat Premier with Ambassador status during the system merger. Many, as far as I can tell, found that to be a fleeting artifact of the system merge’s glitch’s and mistakes. But I’m sure a few actually have the 5 Star status.
There’s always an unpublished superior status.
Aug 23, 2018, 10:41 pm
#101
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Unfortunately, there has been a running false equivalency for some about their pre-merger Marriott Plat Premier with "concierge/ambassador"-to-SPG Platinum comparable status ad their concomitant suite upgrade experiences at SPG properties. They can't seem to understand or want to admit that their matched regular SPG Platinum(25) status wasn't remotely comparable to that of SPG Platinum100 Ambassador status--and the Plat100 suite upgrade experiences at the same SPG hotels.
Those same people also can't seem to admit that their own Marriott Plat Premier upgrades at Marriott hotels were nowhere near as impressive as those for SPG Plat100 Ambassadors at SPG hotels. It's now abundantly clear to everyone how many more luxury and more upscale hotels there always were in the legacy SPG portfolio compared to the paltry number available in the Marriott portfolio. Sorry, but getting upgraded to a suite at the Marriott Omaha or even the 4* JW San Francisco isn't even close to the same as getting a suite upgrade at the St Regis San Francisco, the Prince de Galles Paris, or the W Boston.
Those same people can talk about getting a 40% or 80% upgrade rate at typical 3* and 4* Marriott, Renaissance, and even JW Marriott hotels. But they ignore the simple fact that the suites at Marriott and even most JW hotels aren't remotely as nice as getting a suite at some of the most luxurious hotels in the world. My Plat100 suite upgrade rate this year at SPG hotels is bordering on 95%; the only hotel at which I didn't get a suite upgrade was the StR Osaka, which still upgraded me to the best room category before suites despite being completely sold out.
Marriott Plat Premiers at Marriott hotels, even those with "concierge/ambassador", never had it as good on average as SPG Plat100s with Ambassdors at SPG hotels. It never was close.
Those same people also can't seem to admit that their own Marriott Plat Premier upgrades at Marriott hotels were nowhere near as impressive as those for SPG Plat100 Ambassadors at SPG hotels. It's now abundantly clear to everyone how many more luxury and more upscale hotels there always were in the legacy SPG portfolio compared to the paltry number available in the Marriott portfolio. Sorry, but getting upgraded to a suite at the Marriott Omaha or even the 4* JW San Francisco isn't even close to the same as getting a suite upgrade at the St Regis San Francisco, the Prince de Galles Paris, or the W Boston.
Those same people can talk about getting a 40% or 80% upgrade rate at typical 3* and 4* Marriott, Renaissance, and even JW Marriott hotels. But they ignore the simple fact that the suites at Marriott and even most JW hotels aren't remotely as nice as getting a suite at some of the most luxurious hotels in the world. My Plat100 suite upgrade rate this year at SPG hotels is bordering on 95%; the only hotel at which I didn't get a suite upgrade was the StR Osaka, which still upgraded me to the best room category before suites despite being completely sold out.
Marriott Plat Premiers at Marriott hotels, even those with "concierge/ambassador", never had it as good on average as SPG Plat100s with Ambassdors at SPG hotels. It never was close.
On on the other side Marriott : 20% suite upgrade (and never impressed by the suite) and 80% it’s a fight to get a room with a view upgrade.
Aug 23, 2018, 10:48 pm
#102
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Marriott didn't buy Starwood for our Four Points or Element hotels that are in the suburbs. Marriott bought Starwood for the crown jewels - the relatively top-heavy higher end property as well as the SPG membership. For former SPG members, we see it as self evidence that we have a higher portion of superior hotels because Marriott members were buying so many travel packages and didn't attach a hotel with them because they wanted to wait till after merger to attach it to a SPG hotel. You don't see lots of posts and threads on Flyertalk from SPG members trying to redeem nights and complaining about redeeming nights at a Ritz Carlton (for example). But there are tones from Marriott member that is trying to get in on St Regis Bora Bora or St Regis Maldives...etc. Between SPG and Marriott members, we do have some membership cultural differences. Most SPG members would have just used the usual "get fifth night free" and book 5, 10, 15 days on the property - its a very good deal with good availability. We don't see the need to get the best deal ever existed. Part of the Marriott culture is to play the max value game - so they are jumping from points to travel certs and then hope they can get 7 night and it got blew up in the face with so much bitterness.
We are now merged so it's sort of like getting along with step siblings. Both Marriott and Starwood have their share of road warriors. The gap between the Westin urban center staying road warrior vs the Fairview Inn suburb staying road warrior isn't that great. They both wear suits and I bet they both know enough etiquette - there maybe caviar in the lounge room but one will still grab the veggies (because they don't like the caviar) and the other will still grab the pizza (because they don't like the caviar) and I will grab the cookies (because I also don't like caviar).
I think the unspoken tension is about social-economic class the composition of both memberships. Families that routinely stay in Fairview/Residence Inn are different than those families that routinely stay in Sheraton/Westin and further different that those families that routinely stay in Ritz/St Regis/Luxury Collection. Marriott membership have proportionally lot more of those families that stays in Fairview/Residence Inn than those that stay in JW Marriott/Ritz. The SPG families proportionally have more staying in Sheraton/Westin brands than Four Point or Luxury Collection. There are behavioral differences when families that normally stay in Sheraton/Westin and show up at a Ritz/St Regis/Luxury Collection compared to those families that normally stay in Ritz/St Regis. I'm generalizing here, the difference is there but it's more subtle - like you subconsciously know if that family been around these lounges or that family don't come to these lounge often. Now when a family that normally stay is Fairview/Residence Inn that stay in a Ritz/St Regis..etc. You can tell by the disrumption of harmony in the area - louder, eating like there is no tomorrow, grabbing generous portions of the most expensive stuff even if they don't like the taste. You try to be polite and you hope they are less loud by giving the parent a "death stare" and it doesn't work because the class difference is too great and they don't come here frequent enough to know the etiquette.
SPG members are worried our lounges especially in the higher end property will have to deal with influx of the above mentioned types of family coming in. It's less about the business road warriors that probably have experience and know-how in eating in $200 per person dinners (forks) and $8 of KFC meals (hands).
Perhaps those former members in the Ritz Carlton Club program members can shed some light on what happened after Marriott bought them. Did Marriott members changed the Ritz Carton culture? Did the lounges/breakfast restaurant get nosier or more unruly? Are our fears unfounded?
We are now merged so it's sort of like getting along with step siblings. Both Marriott and Starwood have their share of road warriors. The gap between the Westin urban center staying road warrior vs the Fairview Inn suburb staying road warrior isn't that great. They both wear suits and I bet they both know enough etiquette - there maybe caviar in the lounge room but one will still grab the veggies (because they don't like the caviar) and the other will still grab the pizza (because they don't like the caviar) and I will grab the cookies (because I also don't like caviar).
I think the unspoken tension is about social-economic class the composition of both memberships. Families that routinely stay in Fairview/Residence Inn are different than those families that routinely stay in Sheraton/Westin and further different that those families that routinely stay in Ritz/St Regis/Luxury Collection. Marriott membership have proportionally lot more of those families that stays in Fairview/Residence Inn than those that stay in JW Marriott/Ritz. The SPG families proportionally have more staying in Sheraton/Westin brands than Four Point or Luxury Collection. There are behavioral differences when families that normally stay in Sheraton/Westin and show up at a Ritz/St Regis/Luxury Collection compared to those families that normally stay in Ritz/St Regis. I'm generalizing here, the difference is there but it's more subtle - like you subconsciously know if that family been around these lounges or that family don't come to these lounge often. Now when a family that normally stay is Fairview/Residence Inn that stay in a Ritz/St Regis..etc. You can tell by the disrumption of harmony in the area - louder, eating like there is no tomorrow, grabbing generous portions of the most expensive stuff even if they don't like the taste. You try to be polite and you hope they are less loud by giving the parent a "death stare" and it doesn't work because the class difference is too great and they don't come here frequent enough to know the etiquette.
SPG members are worried our lounges especially in the higher end property will have to deal with influx of the above mentioned types of family coming in. It's less about the business road warriors that probably have experience and know-how in eating in $200 per person dinners (forks) and $8 of KFC meals (hands).
Perhaps those former members in the Ritz Carlton Club program members can shed some light on what happened after Marriott bought them. Did Marriott members changed the Ritz Carton culture? Did the lounges/breakfast restaurant get nosier or more unruly? Are our fears unfounded?
Aug 23, 2018, 11:01 pm
#103
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they have experienced nothing because Marriott is aware of the high number of flip flop / short pants / Bali sleeveless T-shirt members they have and they don’t accept them in the ritz Carlton lounge. And this didn’t changed with the merger. Even a plat premier elite with ambassador can’t access the lounge if not on a paid suite (upgrade don’t allow lounge access).
Aug 23, 2018, 11:08 pm
#104
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Aug 23, 2018, 11:15 pm
#105
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I agree Marriott didn't buy Starwood for our Four Points or Element hotels that are in the suburbs. However, the Board of Directors of Starwood after retaining outside consultants and the Board of Directors of Marriott after retaining outside consultants sold/bought Starwood at a price premium because there were Starwood guests who didn't have places to stay in the suburbs so they were staying at HGI/Hyatt Place/Holiday Inn Express. By buying Starwood, Marriott could monetize those SPG loyalists guests who were not bringing revenue to Starwood for a large percentage of their stays. Further, I think its pretty clear that Fairfields and Courtyards (as much as I prefer to avoid them) are more profitable than luxury hotels. So no, I don't believe you can find any reputable analysts or deal docs to support your statement that Marriott wanted Starwood for the purported "higher end" customer.
Unfortunately, while there is no data to support this socio-economic theory, I do appreciate you stating it in the open as its quite clear that your view is shared by some on the SPG board on FT.and believe they are better educated, have more money, and are better looking than those of us who stay at Marriott's. I'll hope we can move past this elitism ... I don't need to debate my education, my passport stamps, finances, experience with interacting with those in high levels of business, politics, or military sectors, or otherwise with anyone. I can tell you, however, that we're a pretty friendly group here on the Marriott board who like sharing information and helping each other with travel experiences. Beyond being nice people, it's also apparent that the group on the Marriott board is well-educated and well-traveled.
So ... can we move on past these stereotypes ...
Unfortunately, while there is no data to support this socio-economic theory, I do appreciate you stating it in the open as its quite clear that your view is shared by some on the SPG board on FT.and believe they are better educated, have more money, and are better looking than those of us who stay at Marriott's. I'll hope we can move past this elitism ... I don't need to debate my education, my passport stamps, finances, experience with interacting with those in high levels of business, politics, or military sectors, or otherwise with anyone. I can tell you, however, that we're a pretty friendly group here on the Marriott board who like sharing information and helping each other with travel experiences. Beyond being nice people, it's also apparent that the group on the Marriott board is well-educated and well-traveled.
So ... can we move on past these stereotypes ...
Anyway this remember a great article in the New York Times from last year. I bring some other inputs. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/09/b...y-program.html
lets make it clear. It’s not guys from Utah that can imagine the concept of W or innovate as Starwood did. Other value, other lifestyle, other vision, other mindset, other conception of the familly and how the world is open now and people does not belongs to a local community anymore but are global etc etc etc. Far from Marriott roots if you ask me.