kaizen7

Do you guys reckon that these lack of suite upgrades for plt ps due to the t&c on MR side ?
SPG t&c is very clear that platinums get the best category room available including standard suite.

Hotel managements cant argue the wording (other than claim suite was not available and so on) as it was very clear .... plt get best available room including standard suite.

Where on MR t&c, the wording is more ambiguous and less strict.
PLT get upgrade including suite ... so hotel management can give plts and plt ps 1 cat upgrade and they technically already satisfy the program t&c.

C17PSGR

There is no data to support your claim on spend and the deal documents and the Starwood board reports make clear that Marriott bought Starwood because Starwood guests spent extensive stays at middle market properties that Starwood didn't have. The Starwood board felt that the potential of getting SPG members into Fairfields and Courtyards allowed them to receive a premium on their share price for their shareholders. I challenge you to find any report from any reputable financial analyst who says the sale had anything to with SPG members being more profitable or Starwood having more expensive properties. SPG properties had some advantage in RevPAR (but not profitability) but that is largely attributable to the fact there are Marriott properties in Des Moines, Leeds, and other middle market towns that Starwood didn't serve.

As for your other comments, as someone who has been a legacy Marriott Plat Premier for 10 years or so (I've stopped counting), I've spent hundreds of breakfasts in JW/Marriott/Ren/Autograph lounges in large and small cities all over the world. I've yet to see a single lounge that has pizza, tacos, or spaghetti. I can't think of any outside Europe who have ever had ice cream. I think only a minority of business travelers have per diem allowances rather than the ability to expense meals. On the other hand, I prefer that I can pop up in gym clothes, get a quick breakfast and coffee, and get back on conference calls before heading out for meetings. It may not work for you, but the brand standard in the US is for yogurt, oatmeal, fresh fruit, eggs, breads, protein, and juice. Some US lounges (and we watch for them) exceed the brand standard. I simply don't have time for a W/Westin/LC breakfast every day but don't begrudge those who do.

In the past two years, I've stayed at 50-75 legacy Starwood properties, 200-300 Marriott properties, and another 50-75 Hilton/Hyatt/IHG. Some have great general managers who make sure loyalists are treated very well because they understand loyalists return and drive others to their properties. They realize that in the service world, 10-20 percent of your customers are responsible for 80 percent of your profits and influence even more. Most have general managers who are muddling along worrying about today's occupancy, revenues, and costs. A few have general managers who should get out of the business. But the customer base is pretty much the same ..

So instead of arguing SPG loyalists are smarter, wealthier, and better looking, how about we share which properties understand the value of treating loyalists well and how we can all maximize the experiences that are important for us? If you like lounges, help share info on which properties exceed the brand standard with higher quality food so we can stay there? If you thought a legacy SPG property offered a great breakfast option, help share that info. If the property embraces upgrades or special treatment loyalists, share that info? If they don't care, share that info as well.

C17PSGR

I actually prefer the older Marriott wording that didn't use anything like "standard suite" when there were far fewer PPE's as I found legacy Marriott properties were more likely to give exceptional suites than legacy SPG properties (although I recognize there are certainly many legacy SPG members who have received exceptional suites particularly at properties where they are repeat customers -- but I haven't). I'm at a 40 percent suite upgrade rate in legacy Marriott properties this year and almost all would not fit the "standard suite:" interpretation (I expect that will drop significantly under the new program ) That being said, there are certainly GM's and room managers who are trying to minimize housekeeping costs and would just prefer to keep suites empty unless someone pays for it.. Others just don't embrace the program (ahem ... W Scottsdale, JW Cabo). Additionally, not every property has a lot of suites. For example, the Portland Downtown Marriott has 500 rooms and only six suites. Of the six, four are "hospitality suites" with Murphy beds.

frenchft

supatight80

Do you feel as a pre merger MR top most tier that a 40% suite upgrade rate is considered a program success?

hockeyinsider

I don't expect much at the Marriott in the Detroit suburb of Southfield, Michigan, but it was renovated in the last several months or year and they have a $75 rate. So, I'm checking in as a platinum premier ambassador. It will be interesting to see if I get a suite. They have a couple of suites.

C17PSGR

Works for me.

Its far higher than I've had in my 25 nights YTD at SPG properties with only two suite upgrades, although I know others have better SPG upgrade rates than I do -- perhaps because they are repeat guests. Would I prefer 60 percent? Of course! If I just stayed in Chicago, London, Hong Kong, and Santiago, I'd be at 100 percent. In June through mid-July, I was getting close to 100 percent. But the last month it has been tough as hotels are pretty busy. How do you judge a almost sold out property like the Grande Bretagne or Domes Chania when they don't give any upgrade? They're obviously very busy in August but it seems unlikely they didn't upgrade at least some guests. And the practical matter is that I travel to a lot of places -- a last minute airport Marriott/Ren may not have suites and some properties just have a couple of suites.

On the other hand, the Renn Midtown NYC won't, the Stamford Marriott won't, the JW Cabo won't which are certainly not program successes.
Could you ask what they see in your status? Can they see X4 or M0?

supatight80

Well you cant compare your upgrade chances at SPG properties as you are not the top most tier. Of course the SPG Plat50/75/100 would have better chances than your linked SPG Plat status. Likewise, prior to merge i wouldn't expect being upgraded to suites at legacy MR properties as there are legacy MR tiers higher than my linked status.

But as you being a premerger PPE (the invitation one), quite surprised that one would consider a 40% upgrade success rate, even at a 60% success rate a "success"

BTW, I have stayed at GB Athens numerous times including peak season, and that is one property that never fails giving out suite upgrades to Plats. In fact, if base rooms and non suite room are almost sold out there, you betcha they will upgrade you to Suites and not just select standard suites. Hence the 4.8/5 stars review from SPG Plats if im not mistaken.

Bigshaker

bhrubin

Unfortunately, there has been a running false equivalency for some about their pre-merger Marriott Plat Premier with "concierge/ambassador"-to-SPG Platinum comparable status ad their concomitant suite upgrade experiences at SPG properties. They can't seem to understand or want to admit that their matched regular SPG Platinum(25) status wasn't remotely comparable to that of SPG Platinum100 Ambassador status--and the Plat100 suite upgrade experiences at the same SPG hotels.

Those same people also can't seem to admit that their own Marriott Plat Premier upgrades at Marriott hotels were nowhere near as impressive as those for SPG Plat100 Ambassadors at SPG hotels. It's now abundantly clear to everyone how many more luxury and more upscale hotels there always were in the legacy SPG portfolio compared to the paltry number available in the Marriott portfolio. Sorry, but getting upgraded to a suite at the Marriott Omaha or even the 4* JW San Francisco isn't even close to the same as getting a suite upgrade at the St Regis San Francisco, the Prince de Galles Paris, or the W Boston.

Those same people can talk about getting a 40% or 80% upgrade rate at typical 3* and 4* Marriott, Renaissance, and even JW Marriott hotels. But they ignore the simple fact that the suites at Marriott and even most JW hotels aren't remotely as nice as getting a suite at some of the most luxurious hotels in the world. My Plat100 suite upgrade rate this year at SPG hotels is bordering on 95%; the only hotel at which I didn't get a suite upgrade was the StR Osaka, which still upgraded me to the best room category before suites despite being completely sold out.

Marriott Plat Premiers at Marriott hotels, even those with "concierge/ambassador", never had it as good on average as SPG Plat100s with Ambassdors at SPG hotels. It never was close.

C17PSGR

Now that I understand the Lightspeed system, I respectfully disagree on the Plat50/75/100 point. Lightspeed does not display levels of Plat so that can't be a factor. As others have said, the SPG hotel can prioritize repeat guests and be alerted by an Ambassador.

As for the GB Athens, I did not get an upgrade on a two night stay even though I had my Marriott ambassador contact them. The hotel told me that my ambassador had contacted them for a late arrival so they obviously knew that I was at that level. I was surprised on the lack of upgrade from anything other than the base room, particularly since the hotel seemed fairly full of cruise ship passengers based on signs around the hotel.

And not sure what to say on the success measurement ... if I'm in certain cities -- London, Santiago, Hong Kong, Chicago, DC, Miami, Denver, Charlotte, PVR, Cancun, I'll be at 100 percent or close. There are other cities where it depends -- NYC, LA, Spokane, Dallas, and airport hotels by ORD, DFW, LAX. Other places are super convenient to where I need to be but don't upgrade beyond a preferred floor/view - for example -- Westin Alexandria, W Scottsdale, Renn Midtown, Stamford Marriott -- those properties don't follow either the rules or intent of either legacy program.

C17PSGR

Funny ... I thought we had agreed that it was abundantly clear that unless one was a repeat guest or had their ambassador contact the legacy SPG property, they did not know the differences between status so that can't be a factor.

And I get that some people stay at more expensive hotels than others. I presume, however, that we can agree the rules on suite upgrades should be followed regardless of whether it is the finest SPG hotel in the program or the lowliest Moxy. Right?

supatight80

Ok please let me rephrase this, and if possible try not to over/under inflate the %. If i understand correctly, MR properties dont normally have more than a handful of suites.

So as you being the creme dela creme pre merger top tier (PPE by invitation with Ambassador), Not including MR properties that have so limited # of suites, what was your upgrade to suite success %age worldwide?

Meaning what was your suite upgrade success rate at Only MR properties with suites YTD? In the most honest estimate if possible.

yeunganson

Marriott didn't buy Starwood for our Four Points or Element hotels that are in the suburbs. Marriott bought Starwood for the crown jewels - the relatively top-heavy higher end property as well as the SPG membership. For former SPG members, we see it as self evidence that we have a higher portion of superior hotels because Marriott members were buying so many travel packages and didn't attach a hotel with them because they wanted to wait till after merger to attach it to a SPG hotel. You don't see lots of posts and threads on Flyertalk from SPG members trying to redeem nights and complaining about redeeming nights at a Ritz Carlton (for example). But there are tones from Marriott member that is trying to get in on St Regis Bora Bora or St Regis Maldives...etc. Between SPG and Marriott members, we do have some membership cultural differences. Most SPG members would have just used the usual "get fifth night free" and book 5, 10, 15 days on the property - its a very good deal with good availability. We don't see the need to get the best deal ever existed. Part of the Marriott culture is to play the max value game - so they are jumping from points to travel certs and then hope they can get 7 night and it got blew up in the face with so much bitterness.

We are now merged so it's sort of like getting along with step siblings. Both Marriott and Starwood have their share of road warriors. The gap between the Westin urban center staying road warrior vs the Fairview Inn suburb staying road warrior isn't that great. They both wear suits and I bet they both know enough etiquette - there maybe caviar in the lounge room but one will still grab the veggies (because they don't like the caviar) and the other will still grab the pizza (because they don't like the caviar) and I will grab the cookies (because I also don't like caviar).

I think the unspoken tension is about social-economic class the composition of both memberships. Families that routinely stay in Fairview/Residence Inn are different than those families that routinely stay in Sheraton/Westin and further different that those families that routinely stay in Ritz/St Regis/Luxury Collection. Marriott membership have proportionally lot more of those families that stays in Fairview/Residence Inn than those that stay in JW Marriott/Ritz. The SPG families proportionally have more staying in Sheraton/Westin brands than Four Point or Luxury Collection. There are behavioral differences when families that normally stay in Sheraton/Westin and show up at a Ritz/St Regis/Luxury Collection compared to those families that normally stay in Ritz/St Regis. I'm generalizing here, the difference is there but it's more subtle - like you subconsciously know if that family been around these lounges or that family don't come to these lounge often. Now when a family that normally stay is Fairview/Residence Inn that stay in a Ritz/St Regis..etc. You can tell by the disrumption of harmony in the area - louder, eating like there is no tomorrow, grabbing generous portions of the most expensive stuff even if they don't like the taste. You try to be polite and you hope they are less loud by giving the parent a "death stare" and it doesn't work because the class difference is too great and they don't come here frequent enough to know the etiquette.

SPG members are worried our lounges especially in the higher end property will have to deal with influx of the above mentioned types of family coming in. It's less about the business road warriors that probably have experience and know-how in eating in $200 per person dinners (forks) and $8 of KFC meals (hands).

Perhaps those former members in the Ritz Carlton Club program members can shed some light on what happened after Marriott bought them. Did Marriott members changed the Ritz Carton culture? Did the lounges/breakfast restaurant get nosier or more unruly? Are our fears unfounded?

C17PSGR

I understand your question and will try to take a quick look although its difficult to answer. The ratio of suites to rooms varies widely by property. As BHRubin has suggested, some of the hotels he stays at (and perhaps St.R. in general), have a high rate of suites. The StR.San Francisco he likes, for example, has 214 guest rooms and 46 suites, so I presume that plats are almost always upgraded at that property and it sounds like, as a repeat guest who has his ambassador contact the property in advance, I would expect he would get one of their best suites. The Marriott Marquis in Miami or the W Brickell have similar ratios and I always get suites at those properties as do plats.

In contrast, there are cities which some of our FTers don't travel to and don't have the same suite ratios because they don't sell there. The Omaha Marriott has 323 rooms and 10 suites so I presume many plats will not be upgraded at that property. The Portland Marriott has a worse suite/room ratio than the Omaha Marriott. The Leeds Marriott has 236 rooms and 8 suites. That doesn't mean they are equivalent hotels or have the same range of services as a St. Regis in Osaka or Tokyo ... but I could (pre-August 18) be generally confident that I'll get one of the 10 suites in Omaha, 8 suites in Leeds, or 6 suites in Portland. And ... if you need to be in Leeds or Omaha (both of which are nice places even if not a place you'll travel as a tourist), isn't that what you want from a program? I'm less confident, however, when I misconnect at LAX and need a room at midnight that I'll be upgraded and upgrades in NYC/LA are a roll of the dice.