NotJustDreaming

Regarding Kruger Gate, I was planning a three night stay and entering the park daily (annual pass) for self drives. I'm aware that we wouldn't be able to enter until the park opens but I'm uncertain if this should change our mind to stays at either end of an overnight (or two) stay somewhere in the park. Thoughts?

Also, this would be another award stay. Aside from bringing grocery items, is there any nearby affordable dining?

(This is part of a year of travel so budget is always on my mind.)

NotJustDreaming

I'm making notes on what you all say about specific hotels. For some reason I value FT reviews over TripAdvisor.

Adam1222

The whole point of this thread is for people to learn about Protea and African Pride hotels and what to expect at them; not to scold the people who are giving information about specific properties.

Putting aside the tone of this, having stayed at international chain properties in about 30 countries, this is incorrect.
Most international chains do have a brand standard. And it's not only "Americans" who know this. (Nor is it American chains; see for example Accor Hotels (France); Carlson Rezidor (Belgian/American conglomerate); Four Seasons (Canadian); Aman (Singapore); Kempinski (Switzerland); Boscolo (Italy); Mandarin Oriental (Hong Kong); Melia (Spain); NH (Spain); Taj (India).)

If you want to say that Protea, unlike many of the larger international chains,
has a great variation among properties and you shouldn't expect a brand standard, that's fine. It's also not perjorative to say that there isn't a brand standard at Protea properties, nor is it some American bias. People often comment that Doubletree hotels have no brand standard, for example. (And it wouldn't be unreasonable to think Protea has a brand standard since (1) it is a brand; and (2) it is owned by a company that has brand standards for its other brands.)

My guess is that as Marriott places more of its imprint on Protea over time, you will see some brand standardization, and/or possibly certain properties adopting the brand of other SPG/Marriott brands. African Pride is already fairly consistent, as is Protea Fire and Ice. Newer builds will likely reflect a common standard.

Of course, a brand standard doesn't mean that a hotel in a city and on the beach will be identical. The Holiday Inn in Batu Ferringhi wasn't the same hotel as the Holiday Inn in Bilbao. The Radisson Blu Phuket is not the same as the Radisson Blu Minneapolis. But there certainly are common "levels" of service and quality as those tend to be used in the hospitality industry

Happy

We stayed at the Kruger Gate on our arrival night at the area driving straight from Jo'burg, and on our last night before driving back to Jo'burg the next day. There is NOTHING nearby Protea Kruger Gate. The only options of dining are within the hotel. That is why the room rates are half board or full board.

We stayed 4 nights inside the park. TripAdvisor actually is very helpful on HOW TO book the public camps run by SanParks. Booking online is NOT the way to do it. Lots of discussion in the Kruger forum on TripAdvisor on why booking over the phone has great advantage over booking online. The forum offered a lot of tips on which camp to choose from, as well as which type of units to choose from, plus how to plan the driving inside the park. I have found it VERY HELPFUL.

If you opt to stay outside the park, you could not go very far inside Kruger which is 7523 sqm, and in comparison, Table Mountain NP which includes the whole Cape Peninsula where the Cape of Good Hope is at, is only 85.33 sqm. It is as big as Israel and 1/3 of the size of Ireland...
While most guides said the animals concentrate in the lower South - it really is not the case based on our visit last Sept and another FTer friend who has made 3 visits to Kruger. The norther part has a lot more animals than the guidebooks say. It also has a lot less tourists as most tourists do not venture north of middle part of Kruger, such as the Satara.

If you could only have 3 days to visit Kruger, I would still suggest you spend at least 2 nights inside the park. If you are driving in from Jo'burg, it is a 5 to 6 hours drive to reach Kruger Gate which is not directly off the freeway like Crocodile Gate. There is an hour or more winding road after you exit the freeway before you reach Kruger Gate. So your first day would not be feasible to spend inside the park.

Public camps are not expensive. The cheaper ones that have communal bathrooms and shower facilities are in the $60 to $70 a night range IIRC. There are even permanent Safari tents go cheaper than that.

There are concession stores at each main camp. The foods there are not expensive, except very limited selection of fresh fruits and produces, as expected. Restaurants at each main camp as well. Comparing to US restaurant prices, they are very reasonable. Else you can stock up your provisions at the supermarkets en route when you are driving towards Kruger. It gives you more choices, slightly cheaper prices, but also slow you down on your arrival day.

While you may not trust TripAdvisor reviewers on hotels, the Travel Forums for a particular location can be very helpful.

It is fine to use it as a base for daily visit - but there are a few things to bear in mind - from the entrance which is only a couple meters from the hotel, to the Skukuza camp where you pay for your fee, is a 30 min drive with strict speed limit control. In theory the entrance should be able to process your day visit fee and permit. However their system is often down and you would need to get that done at one of the main camps.

Of our 5 days visit inside Kruger, the ONLY place we saw speed monitor set up is on the road leaving Skukuza towards Kruger Gate. And they meant business. The speed limit is 50km/hr on tar road and 40km/hr on gravel road. Keep in mind you also need to EXIT the park before the closing time. Else you would be subject to a big fine.

If you are caught speeding, you will be issued a ticket which can be a huge headache to find a place to pay it (you can pay it at the police station or at the post office but since this is Africa, payment processing system does not always work.... Also ticket issued by one province must be paid in the same province, not at a different province). I just read a story on a travel site, the person who went on 78km/hr on a road (outside the park but still in the area) that the speed limit was 60km/hr. He was caught by the speed camera set by the road side. It took him 10 visits to different police stations / post offices to eventually take care of the ticket.
If you search TripAdvisor Kruger forum or the related forum on traffic fines, you would get an eye opener on how messy it could get.

On top of TripAdvisor travel forum, you can also visit SanParks community where you can get some really good advice as well.

Happy

Comparing Protea to the chains you name is not really appropriate because all of the chains you named, are much bigger operation than Protea. Africa is far different from the countries you named. Anyone thinks a company operates in Africa would have a similar operation model as companies in developed countries on the laundry list above, is not being realistic.

Putting Protea on the same level as Four Seasons, MO, Aman, Kempinski. Boscolo and Taj is downright laughable as Protea is many levels down market from those names.

sdsearch

I think you missed one of my points.

I find the Protea FOREIGN brand to be very much like an international chain that many American know (in terms of hotel build variations): Best Western. Just like with Protea, there are Best Westerns in two-story elevator-less "motel" designs, and there are Best Western in modern high-rise "business hotel" designs, and there are all sorts of others. Never twice have I seen two Best Westerns look alike, and in my much smaller overview of Protea neither did I see two Proteas look alike.

So my point was not that there are no international chains whose properties have building styles varying like Protea, just that I wasn't familar with Marriott brands elsewhere being like that (to that degree of two-story "motel" all the way to high-rise "business hotel").

Btw, you mentioned Hampton. Hampton used to be a bit more like that (consider that it did not start as Hilton family brand; I remember once decades ago staying a Hampton before it was part of the Hilton family), but about a decade ago Hilton began throwing out Hamptons with exterior corridors. There may be a few left here and there, but a lot got outsted.

While I know of some Fairfields with (at least partly) exterior corridors, all of those I've seen are 3+ stories with elevators.

And, btw, I distinguish between 2-story properties which are that way because they're lots of separate buildings with just a few units each or with a a "lodge" layout, and 2-story properties in one ugly rectangular box building looking much like a typical suburban or small-town US (interior-corridor) two-story Days Inn or Travelodge or Super 8, except for the breakfast. The Protea in George was like the latter. I wouldn't have believed I was at a Marriott family property if I hadn't booked it that way.

sdsearch

They need that in other areas more than in building style. I can accept the varying building styles once I know about it; it was just that it was so unexpected when I first ran into it (the two-story Protea in George was actually the very first Protea I ever stayed at, as it was the Protea of that trip and I've never been to Africa before that trip).

I was more astounded at Protea Hazyview having Wi-Fi access only in common areas (without explain that clearly on their website). When I asked them about it, they did mention that Marriott has only been adding its brand standards for a few months, and that this hotel will be working on expanding the Wi-Fi to cover all the rooms in the future. (It was the only Protea of the 7 that I stayed at where the WiFi didn't work in the guest rooms.) And, btw, that public WiFi in the central area could need keep up when lots of people were trying to use it, so I only found it usable some of the time, in short burtss !

On the other hand, that wasn't weirdest computer access experience of the trip. That would be Port Elizabeth (the high-rise "business hotel"), where for WiFi access you need not only your last name and room number but also a special code they generate at check-in. Unfortunately, I had to have to my room changed twice since they generated that (once at check-in they scribbled out the original room and gave me another, and then after they couldn't fix the air conditioning in time for my second night and so they agreed to move me to another room). When I went to print my boarding pass at the public computer (with printer next to it), it demanded all three of these pieces of information, and wouldn't accept it. It took about 45 minutes for someone from the front desk to finally come and figure out how to log in as themselves so that I could print my boarding pass. I have never seen such a goofy setup where you can't use a public computer at a hotel without using your WiFi login! That's something that Marriott should fix too. (Every other Protea I stayed at had the standard Marriott last name and room, except for Hazyview which due to its WiFi only working in the central public area required no login at all.)

Adam1222

It seems like you are deliberately misconstruing my point, which was a rebuttal to your statement that only American hotel chains have brand standards.

Protea is part of Marriott, and there are plenty of hotels in Africa that are part of international chains that meet brand standards. I'd list the ones I know of and have been to but I'd suspect you'd call me laughable or unrealistic and explain why I'm an idiot for referencing the Hilton Windhoek or the Holiday Inn Rosebank.

It really seems like you're spoiling for a fight here, and I'm unclear why.

Adam1222

As promised, I got around to doing a fairly lengthy post on my blog about the three Protea properties I stayed at in Cape Town, expanding on the thoughts shared above and including lots of photos -- the Protea Cape Castle, the Protea Victoria Junction, and the African Pride 15 on Orange: http://www.youwentwhere.com/?p=5942 . Of course, happy to answer more questions on here as well.

sdsearch

Was Wifi the standard (Marriott) room # + last name at all three properties?

I take it you did not check out the restaurant (in terms of whether dinner was buffet or menu, etc) at any of the three?

Thanks.

Adam1222

I don't remember about the Wi-Fi alas. It was free at all three, and there wasn't anything notable about sign in.
I did not eat or even look at any of the onsite restaurants, though you do get a.discount as a Prokard Explorer cardholder. The African pride 15 on Orange had multiple options though .

skunker

I was given a similar room but two floors up at 15 on Orange two weeks ago.

Xeno

How much do you remember about the quality of the Protea Stellenbosch Dorphuis Spa? I am booked there in October.

Do I have it right that there are no gold elite benefits here other than free wifi? No free breakfast, right?

Roger

We were disappointed at our 5-night award stay in March. We had booked a 'guaranteed' two-bed room but got a small double in an apparently upgraded but still basic two-room suite. I had limited mobility following an accident which meant that I sought out the 'guaranteed' 2-bed room, which wasn't available when we arrived.

Anyway, after discussion we got a rather nice room through the restaurant, outside and up the stairs, somewhat precarious with my problem. Apparently it was reserved for somebody else but we got lucky. Otherwise the stay was fine. Correct.

Note that the wifi is NOT secure, just like other SA hotels. At reception, they even said that a message would pop up saying the system was not secure but that it really was. We chose to ignore that. If necessary you would need to take care of your own security.

For breakfast and other meals, we Uber-ed to other locations including a local mall. Uber worked extremely well for us. (It was the first time in many years that I didn't have a car.)

All in all, it was OK but IMO Marriott have a tough job getting the diverse hotels in Protea's collection up to speed.

Xeno

Very helpful. Thanks for such an informative post.