cdn_rd

+1. Add me to the list of SPG platinum members who joined the forum after the announcement of the SPG/AMEX card to express their dissatisfaction. Let's hope this is a call to action for both.

montrealboy

margarita girl: well said. I could of not say it in a better way, You are 100% correct in every single point you brought out.

No one in there right mind should pay $120/yr for a card that's virtually not accepted in Canada (except for Costco) you can't use it grocery stores, pharmacist's, insurance, dentist/doctor's and the list goes on and on. I spend $50000 + on credit cards each year. since the SPG/MBNA divorce was announced I stared paying attention if I could of paid with AMEX. the result was that maybe 10% of where I shop would of accept it. I'm not paying $120/yr for 10k in spending.

drwilliams

IMO the new Starwood Amex was set up to get people to spend more than they would have in the past, thus the $40,000 spend for the free room night.

Some posters have said they stopped spending after they reached $30,000 per year on the MBNA card, and I would guess amex is trying to avoid this happening again.

Lots of people are talking about not taking up the card, but I think many people (not necessarily on this board) will get the card, since spg points are perceived as more valuable than other alternatives.

I use amex almost exclusively, purely for the Aeroplan and Membership Rewards points, where other cards do not provide as good a return, IMO.

For acceptance, I have no trouble with using my card, whether at large retailers or small. There are some who do not accept it, but they are the minority from my experience.

I may take up the card and switch some spending to it, but have not decided yet. I think it is better value than almost any other amex product, depending on spending patterns. The only downside for me is the fact it is not a charge card and will possibly have a low limit.

I think if you spend north of $50,000 per year, it is better value than the MBNA card, as over the $30,000 spend the points are $2:1 point.

JWL

It is interesting how people's spending patterns (where they spend) varies so much. Some saying Amex only works at 10% of the stores they shop, others experience 90%.

As was suggested earlier, the most obvious thing for Amex to do to "prove" their acceptance would be to make the card free or cheaper for at least the first year.

Now if they are planning on having a $120 fee ongoing, they are obviously going for bigger spenders who can justify the fee. So it may not make sense for them to offer it for free for a year and attract a lot of cardholders that they don't expect to keep. If that was all true, they could solve that by rebating the fee (at least in the first year) when you hit $20K in spending. I think most people who would be Amex's target market would hit that, although there would be some in montrealboy's situation who would not because of where they spend.

I regards to comments stating that Amex doesn't know what they're doing or know the impact of having a fee, they are probably the "leader" in "with fee" cards. They have one of the highest (if not the highest) with fee card, and they probably have the highest % of with-fee cards (11 of 15). Possibly even the first to have with-fee cards (big guess there). It may be that transitioning from a no-fee card to a with-fee card is a bit different, but they have lots of experience in charging fees for their less widely accepted cards.

yeunganson

Canada as a whole only have the population about the size of California and we're the 2nd largest country in the world. So our population is spread out.

I can see major cities that have more stores taking AMEX, but when you move outside of any major city to a smaller city of 10000 - 50000 population. Most stores, if they take credit cards at all, will take VISA or Mastercard.

If you go to even smaller towns, they may even take cash only or just direct debit to bank account (called Interac here).

The most obvious reason the lack of AMEX acceptace in smaller stores is AMEX charges higher transaction fees to the merchant - 4% or so VS 1 or 2% for VISA/Mastercard. For mom and pop stores, that is difference in profit margins. Even for those stores with a monopoly in smaller towns, why take AMEX if they don't have to. Customers always have cash - local or not. To allow people to buy with borrowed money (ie credit), just taking VISA/MC is sufficient.

Then again, if AMEX charges 4% in fees. Then slap a $C 120 annual fee. Why is the offering of this card so weak compared to the same AMEX SPG of USA?

For most Canadians, I don't think they heard much about Starwood or Starpoints. The most widely known frequent points program is Aeroplan (Air Canada's point program) and followed by Air Miles. Although Starwood's Starpoints are more valuable, they are coming into Canada's market in a minority fashion against well established programs and should be in a disadvantage.

Among the most widely accepted cards, Starwood ties with the least accepted AMEX. Them AMEX's SPG Canadian card shows up with features like they already own the market - giving weak benifits and high annual fees.

You really need to be very loyal SPG member to bite... or if you feel like taken as a sucker.

rankourabu

Am I the only one that has noticed that Amex double dips on foreign exchange fees if the charge is in anything but USD.

They seem to charge 2.5% to convert to USD and then another 2.5% to convert to CAD.

I was shocked to see that, until I looked and it spells it out right in the contract.

todd-r

Yup - AMEX, as an American Company, converts all fx transactions to USD first and then to the local currency of the country the card is issued out of.

This is unlike Visa and MC that convert directly from the foreign amount to CAD.

ivany

Yep. I took a look at this as well and since my credit card is my primary currency when traveling, this is yet one more reason to not choose Amex if you're a Canadian.

I'm hoping (against hope most likely) that Hilton offers something in Canada soon credit card wise.

Too bad about this anyways, I've always stayed at Starwood properties whenever I've traveled for business or leisure and still think highly of their service and standards.

JWL

Youch.

jennieG

After much thinking, I think that I will get this card after all. Maybe my expectations are more modest.

I am not a big traveller but I will be doing at least 25 nights/year at a Westin (close to my work site) after I got that particular Westin to match the corporate preferential rate that Marriott next door was offering (my company deals with Marriott primarily). With the bonus points of using a SPG card as well as the occasional deals (such as right now 2x/3x/4x) as well as the 1:1 conversion now, I think that it will be OK to pay for this card.

Also as an experiment, I stopped using my MBNA card as of March 1 and decided to see how many merchants locally (Ottawa) will take Amex (I have a free Airmiles Amex). I found out that I could change some of my spending habits (e.g. Farmboy versus Loblaws for my main groceries). Yes, I won't be covering all bases that the MC so easily fitted but I think that I could make it work. I will also be going through my monthly bills to see which ones I could convert to an Amex.

I really hope that they will give us a year to try it out and also give us at least one supplemental card (for more earning power) for free.

Anyway, right now I am just a bit peeved that we have not received any info about application yet ... come on. Also being back in Canada only recently (after a decade in the US), it was a breeze to get an MBNA card (b/c they could access our superb credit score in the US) ... I am not looking forward to the Amex approval process. Even with our TD infinite visa and with a lot of business with TD, our credit limit was only $5K! Pathetic to say the least.

Will be checking this thread again in a few days to see if anyone heard more about the application or any news.

Cheers

todd-r

Wow, that's real loyalty - changing shopping habits to accomodate the credit card issuer. Especially with grocery shopping, which is a very personal choice. But really (and no intention of flaming you), doesn't that just feed the hand of Amex and their limited acceptance?

jnswinnipeg

I will be one of the people who will pay for the card, although I would prefer not to. Each day this is delayed is a loss in potential points earned. With the MBNA card I was a high volume user and expect that I will be as well with the Amex, although not as high. I wish they would sort this out so I could start earning SPG points again!

Great White North

Well a US$ VISA card with no rewards doesn't sound that interesting. I'm already keeping 2K in my account to get no fess at TD (for a simpler plan). I can't get 4% on savings, but my LOC is 4%, so it's costing me 4% to keep inactive cash in my checking account.

Great White North

Ouch! That's ugly and I'll bet it's hidden in the fine print. I'll have to avoid using my AMEX in London this spring.

ericw

Actually, all(?) CDN Visas (if merchant did not use their own FX) have to converts to USD first through Visa int'l, then convert to CDN - you just dont see it on your statement!

I know my RBC Avion definitely go through this process. The first conversion, let's say EUR-USD is at Visa Int'l whole sale rate (about 1%), USD-CAD is also at whole sale rate first (about 1%) then RBC add 2.5% on top. So you are likely paying about 4.5% above the settlement rate of EUR-CAD.

The exchange of cash/deposits at Canadian banks from EUR to CAD go through the same process actually. All have to go through USD! For most people doing small $$ forex at banks, they are paying worse/similar rate then using C$ credit card directly. For the convenience and security, I'd say just use your damn Visa!

Personally, I charge non-US transactions to my RBC USD Gold, then pay off using my USD savings.

As for Visa vs Amex rate, I assume Amex is worse, but I did not notice much difference. Amex of course use their own whole sale rate - might be better than Visa whole sale rate.

Not sure about M/C, but I assume it is the same as Visa.