Jan 3, 2019, 1:46 pm
Last edit by: randomperson24
NEW TO MS? It's suggested that new arrivals should do some serious reading for a month of all the posts and wiki to get an understanding of MS before asking common questions.
Note: the 2017 - 2018 version of this thread is here, 2016 version of this thread is here, the 2015 version of the thread is here
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. Marathon Man did not write this message, but he has edited it and anyone can. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. High "View Count" and "Replies" are good indicators of active "master threads" on a specific topic.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
3) A glossary wiki for MS located in the thread Glossary, Manufactured Spending Forum
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. Some might argue that MS is like card counting in a casino. It is not illegal but casinos dont like it. Orhers have said its like having a fake ID in college to use just to get into bars where all the fun is. Just because it worked here yesterday doesnt mean it will get you in today. MS is like being a wood worker constantly using a table saw. Always watch what you are doingalways! Or you will lose something. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is legal.
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
6) MSing can be used for a variety of purposes, ranging from smallish amounts to meet minimum spend requirements to get a credit card signup bonus, to accumulating huge numbers of points for travel/cashback/etc. Remember too that you will often have expenses such as purchase fees, liquidation fees, and gas.
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
- A helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS
New MSers can also read all these threads:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...-spending-719/
Note: the 2017 - 2018 version of this thread is here, 2016 version of this thread is here, the 2015 version of the thread is here
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. Marathon Man did not write this message, but he has edited it and anyone can. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. High "View Count" and "Replies" are good indicators of active "master threads" on a specific topic.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
3) A glossary wiki for MS located in the thread Glossary, Manufactured Spending Forum
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. Some might argue that MS is like card counting in a casino. It is not illegal but casinos dont like it. Orhers have said its like having a fake ID in college to use just to get into bars where all the fun is. Just because it worked here yesterday doesnt mean it will get you in today. MS is like being a wood worker constantly using a table saw. Always watch what you are doingalways! Or you will lose something. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is legal.
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
6) MSing can be used for a variety of purposes, ranging from smallish amounts to meet minimum spend requirements to get a credit card signup bonus, to accumulating huge numbers of points for travel/cashback/etc. Remember too that you will often have expenses such as purchase fees, liquidation fees, and gas.
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
- A helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS
New MSers can also read all these threads:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...-spending-719/
New to Manufactured Spending? Start here (2019-2024)
May 3, 2024, 12:43 pm
#931
Join Date: Jun 2023
Posts: 196
Are you allowed to have both Serve and BB? I see some old data points suggesting that you aren't. I tried to sign up for Serve and got a "phone number already registered" error; I'm pretty sure that's not true. I tried logging into Serve with my BB credentials, didn't work. I'm 99% sure I never set up a Serve account. I can't check because Serve account recovery seems to require a card number.
UPDATE: I called BB customer service, the CSR said that it's okay to apply for Serve even though I have Bluebird and that I won't get in trouble. CSR also said that the source of the error probably was the fact that I already have Bluebird. CSR said that maybe there is some error with the website, but that I could try using another phone number and I wouldn't get in trouble. Do you think that's accurate?
UPDATE: I tried to apply using my BB phone number and the website said the phone number is already in our system. Then I tried using my BB email and it said the email is already in our system. Then I tried using a different phone and email, got through to the end of the application, and got a generic "we cannot approve you at this time." Tried this on 2 devices and 2 networks. During this process I called BB customer service 3 more separate times; each person said that you should be able to get both. One agreed with the first CSR that I could try another phone number or another device and it would be fine.
UPDATE: I called BB customer service, the CSR said that it's okay to apply for Serve even though I have Bluebird and that I won't get in trouble. CSR also said that the source of the error probably was the fact that I already have Bluebird. CSR said that maybe there is some error with the website, but that I could try using another phone number and I wouldn't get in trouble. Do you think that's accurate?
UPDATE: I tried to apply using my BB phone number and the website said the phone number is already in our system. Then I tried using my BB email and it said the email is already in our system. Then I tried using a different phone and email, got through to the end of the application, and got a generic "we cannot approve you at this time." Tried this on 2 devices and 2 networks. During this process I called BB customer service 3 more separate times; each person said that you should be able to get both. One agreed with the first CSR that I could try another phone number or another device and it would be fine.
Last edited by TyrannicalDuncery; May 3, 2024 at 8:56 pm
May 4, 2024, 4:22 am
#933
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Continental Onepass, Hilton, Marriott, USAir and now UA
Posts: 6,527
)Welcome to the fickle world of Amex Serve and BB, where denials are as common as clouds.
I suspect, and this is only a guess, that Amex now tracks SS#s and the number of applications for its cards in a certain time period. You are not the first virgin (i.e. never had any contact with Amex in the past) who applied and received a card soon to be followed by a denial for a second similar card (BB then Serve for example).
It will be interesting to see if by waiting you become eligible for another card. However, I suspect that those who use techniques to avoid fees or perform shenanigans that reek of MSing on their current account may be in for a rude surprise when asking for another card.
Amex has come a long way from 2016 when they just did mass closures in figuring out who they want as a customer and likewise, who they don't.
May 4, 2024, 5:28 pm
#934
Join Date: Jun 2023
Posts: 196
- Don't try to do the buy-in-store cards. (One CSR suggested that, plus I can try for Amex that way instead of Visa. But I'm guessing that the activation process is pretty much identical to the online ordering process.)
- Try again in a little over a month. (Feels like a reasonable time period that it at least wouldn't look like a red flag and dig myself even deeper, but I have no evidence for that. I see some old posts of people who think you needed to wait 30 days to SWITCH products 10 years ago, but other people saying you didn't.)
- In the meantime, don't do any loads and try to have some activity on the card, direct deposits, shopping, bill pays.
May 5, 2024, 4:28 pm
#935
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Continental Onepass, Hilton, Marriott, USAir and now UA
Posts: 6,527
Thanks radonc1! (I won't post thank you in two places LOL). It sounds like the odds are poor and we don't know what the best approach is, but I'm wondering what you think of my current plan:
- Don't try to do the buy-in-store cards. (One CSR suggested that, plus I can try for Amex that way instead of Visa. But I'm guessing that the activation process is pretty much identical to the online ordering process.)
- Try again in a little over a month. (Feels like a reasonable time period that it at least wouldn't look like a red flag and dig myself even deeper, but I have no evidence for that. I see some old posts of people who think you needed to wait 30 days to SWITCH products 10 years ago, but other people saying you didn't.)
- In the meantime, don't do any loads and try to have some activity on the card, direct deposits, shopping, bill pays.
#2: Unless you can come up with a clean SS#, address and email, I would guess that one month is too soon. Use your BB card just like a normal customer would (add some money and spend it routinely including paying some normal bills, etc) and give it 6 months and try again. IOW, yes, do #3
Sadly, if turned down again, then it is likely that your SS# is banned but you do get to keep your extant BB card. Just remember that if you lose that one, you probably can say adios to Amex BB and Serve for life
May 5, 2024, 5:37 pm
#936
Join Date: Jun 2023
Posts: 196
Thank you radonc1 for the kind words. ❤️ Do you think waiting a year would be better? I won't really need to use it until then so I can wait.
Should we add something to the wiki about applying for Serve and BB too close together in time? I thought I had searched the threads pretty well and didn't notice that advice. 😭
Should we add something to the wiki about applying for Serve and BB too close together in time? I thought I had searched the threads pretty well and didn't notice that advice. 😭
May 6, 2024, 12:27 pm
#937
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 32
My Serves went away in the First Great Purge of 2015. I've got 14 AMEX cards of various flavors and they're always trying to give me more... no connection to Serve whatsoever.
May 8, 2024, 3:46 pm
#938
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Continental Onepass, Hilton, Marriott, USAir and now UA
Posts: 6,527
However, to prevent fraud and MLing, Amex required ID in the form of SS#s and other information such as phone #'s etc.
Getting turned down by Amex credit cards has no influence, as far as I can tell, on success or failure at Amex debit cards, and visa versa, although that might not be true for really bad anactors.
May 8, 2024, 3:50 pm
#939
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Continental Onepass, Hilton, Marriott, USAir and now UA
Posts: 6,527
Should we add something to the wiki about applying for Serve and BB too close together in time? I thought I had searched the threads pretty well and didn't notice that advice. 😭
As you said, there isn't much out there on this point.
May 12, 2024, 8:22 am
#940
Join Date: Apr 2024
Posts: 18
Cracker Barrel?
Looking at FlyerTalk and Reddit, I keep seeing jokes about buying stuff/GC at Cracker Barrel since they have a gift shop.
It never seems like its a serious response, but I dont get the joke lol wouldnt purchasing GC from the gift shop actually work to trigger restaurant spend? Right now Im getting 12x at restaurants from a referral on my Amex BBP so as long as Amex doesnt get L3 from Cracker Barrel, shouldnt this work? Thanks!
It never seems like its a serious response, but I dont get the joke lol wouldnt purchasing GC from the gift shop actually work to trigger restaurant spend? Right now Im getting 12x at restaurants from a referral on my Amex BBP so as long as Amex doesnt get L3 from Cracker Barrel, shouldnt this work? Thanks!
May 12, 2024, 11:50 am
#941
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Continental Onepass, Hilton, Marriott, USAir and now UA
Posts: 6,527
Looking at FlyerTalk and Reddit, I keep seeing jokes about buying stuff/GC at Cracker Barrel since they have a gift shop.
It never seems like its a serious response, but I dont get the joke lol wouldnt purchasing GC from the gift shop actually work to trigger restaurant spend? Right now Im getting 12x at restaurants from a referral on my Amex BBP so as long as Amex doesnt get L3 from Cracker Barrel, shouldnt this work? Thanks!
It never seems like its a serious response, but I dont get the joke lol wouldnt purchasing GC from the gift shop actually work to trigger restaurant spend? Right now Im getting 12x at restaurants from a referral on my Amex BBP so as long as Amex doesnt get L3 from Cracker Barrel, shouldnt this work? Thanks!
As always with questions like these, the best procedure is to do a test run buying the gift card or whatever at the shop and use your credit card. See if you get the restaurant spend and most importantly, let everyone know about it.
I suspect that the answer will be no, but as always, be the DP
May 17, 2024, 5:51 pm
#943
Join Date: May 2024
Posts: 3
Hi,
I tried to ms at IKEA. I purchased goods valued about 28k at the store. (I ordered at the store and paid at the check out, but I didn't pick up the actual items.) When I went to the return desk, they refused to refund nor let me pick up the items, stating I must call my credit card companies.
What should I do?
I tried to ms at IKEA. I purchased goods valued about 28k at the store. (I ordered at the store and paid at the check out, but I didn't pick up the actual items.) When I went to the return desk, they refused to refund nor let me pick up the items, stating I must call my credit card companies.
What should I do?
May 17, 2024, 6:35 pm
#944
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: LAX, SNA
Programs: B6 M4, AA Plat Pro, WoH Globalist, IHG Diamond Amb, MB Titanium, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 1,551
Hi,
I tried to ms at IKEA. I purchased goods valued about 28k at the store. (I ordered at the store and paid at the check out, but I didn't pick up the actual items.) When I went to the return desk, they refused to refund nor let me pick up the items, stating I must call my credit card companies.
What should I do?
I tried to ms at IKEA. I purchased goods valued about 28k at the store. (I ordered at the store and paid at the check out, but I didn't pick up the actual items.) When I went to the return desk, they refused to refund nor let me pick up the items, stating I must call my credit card companies.
What should I do?
May 17, 2024, 8:55 pm
#945
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: AA PLTPRO, HH Diamond, IHG Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 3,570
Hi,
I tried to ms at IKEA. I purchased goods valued about 28k at the store. (I ordered at the store and paid at the check out, but I didn't pick up the actual items.) When I went to the return desk, they refused to refund nor let me pick up the items, stating I must call my credit card companies.
What should I do?
I tried to ms at IKEA. I purchased goods valued about 28k at the store. (I ordered at the store and paid at the check out, but I didn't pick up the actual items.) When I went to the return desk, they refused to refund nor let me pick up the items, stating I must call my credit card companies.
What should I do?