Jan 3, 2019, 1:46 pm
Last edit by: randomperson24
NEW TO MS? It's suggested that new arrivals should do some serious reading for a month of all the posts and wiki to get an understanding of MS before asking common questions.
Note: the 2017 - 2018 version of this thread is here, 2016 version of this thread is here, the 2015 version of the thread is here
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. Marathon Man did not write this message, but he has edited it and anyone can. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. High "View Count" and "Replies" are good indicators of active "master threads" on a specific topic.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
3) A glossary wiki for MS located in the thread Glossary, Manufactured Spending Forum
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. Some might argue that MS is like card counting in a casino. It is not illegal but casinos don’t like it. Orhers have said it’s like having a fake ID in college to use just to get into bars where all the fun is. Just because it worked here yesterday doesn’t mean it will get you in today. MS is like being a wood worker constantly using a table saw. Always watch what you are doing—always! Or you will lose something. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is legal.
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
6) MSing can be used for a variety of purposes, ranging from smallish amounts to meet minimum spend requirements to get a credit card signup bonus, to accumulating huge numbers of points for travel/cashback/etc. Remember too that you will often have expenses such as purchase fees, liquidation fees, and gas.
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
- A helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS
New MSers can also read all these threads:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...-spending-719/
Note: the 2017 - 2018 version of this thread is here, 2016 version of this thread is here, the 2015 version of the thread is here
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. Marathon Man did not write this message, but he has edited it and anyone can. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. High "View Count" and "Replies" are good indicators of active "master threads" on a specific topic.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
3) A glossary wiki for MS located in the thread Glossary, Manufactured Spending Forum
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. Some might argue that MS is like card counting in a casino. It is not illegal but casinos don’t like it. Orhers have said it’s like having a fake ID in college to use just to get into bars where all the fun is. Just because it worked here yesterday doesn’t mean it will get you in today. MS is like being a wood worker constantly using a table saw. Always watch what you are doing—always! Or you will lose something. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is legal.
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
6) MSing can be used for a variety of purposes, ranging from smallish amounts to meet minimum spend requirements to get a credit card signup bonus, to accumulating huge numbers of points for travel/cashback/etc. Remember too that you will often have expenses such as purchase fees, liquidation fees, and gas.
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
- A helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS
New MSers can also read all these threads:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...-spending-719/
New to Manufactured Spending? Start here (2019-2024)
Sep 9, 2023, 12:59 pm
#781
Join Date: Sep 2023
Posts: 3
Need some tips?
So i've been lurking and contemplating on MSing for a couple months. Making sure i've read all the guides/wiki and posts and finally decided to give it a crack.
I bought a $200 staples MCGC during no fee week and attempted to liquidate at my local WM buying 2x $99 MO. I was asked to review each transaction and press accept. Once i did that, i swiped and was told that the transaction could not go through. Tried doing it 2 more times before aborting the transaction as 2 other employees were pulled in to help me.
Am I missing a step here?
I bought a $200 staples MCGC during no fee week and attempted to liquidate at my local WM buying 2x $99 MO. I was asked to review each transaction and press accept. Once i did that, i swiped and was told that the transaction could not go through. Tried doing it 2 more times before aborting the transaction as 2 other employees were pulled in to help me.
Am I missing a step here?
Sep 9, 2023, 1:08 pm
#782
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: LAX, SNA
Programs: B6 M4, AA Plat Pro, Hyatt Globalist, IHG Diamond Amb, Marriott Titanium, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 1,475
So i've been lurking and contemplating on MSing for a couple months. Making sure i've read all the guides/wiki and posts and finally decided to give it a crack.
I bought a $200 staples MCGC during no fee week and attempted to liquidate at my local WM buying 2x $99 MO. I was asked to review each transaction and press accept. Once i did that, i swiped and was told that the transaction could not go through. Tried doing it 2 more times before aborting the transaction as 2 other employees were pulled in to help me.
Am I missing a step here?
I bought a $200 staples MCGC during no fee week and attempted to liquidate at my local WM buying 2x $99 MO. I was asked to review each transaction and press accept. Once i did that, i swiped and was told that the transaction could not go through. Tried doing it 2 more times before aborting the transaction as 2 other employees were pulled in to help me.
Am I missing a step here?
Sep 9, 2023, 2:06 pm
#783
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 828
Depends on the company and the fine print.
For example, Chase, upon closing your accounts, will give you between 60-90 days (per DPs) to move money and earned awards with the specific accounts.
Other providers have not been so generous, and there are numerous DPs out there (maybe check the shutdown thread for them) of awards being snatched away and not being returned (although the person being so treated may have ultimately been given their earned points/etc. and just not reported it.)
I personally have only been shut down once, by BB in 2016 and their gambit was to deny loading while allowing you to withdraw the money down to zero before closure. My approach is never to be shut down (which is everyone's
) but that also means much less pushing the envelope (not everyone's tactic).
The other suggestion is move or use to reduce the risk if closure is a possibility.
For example, Chase, upon closing your accounts, will give you between 60-90 days (per DPs) to move money and earned awards with the specific accounts.
Other providers have not been so generous, and there are numerous DPs out there (maybe check the shutdown thread for them) of awards being snatched away and not being returned (although the person being so treated may have ultimately been given their earned points/etc. and just not reported it.)
I personally have only been shut down once, by BB in 2016 and their gambit was to deny loading while allowing you to withdraw the money down to zero before closure. My approach is never to be shut down (which is everyone's
) but that also means much less pushing the envelope (not everyone's tactic).The other suggestion is move or use to reduce the risk if closure is a possibility.
If the account is open and they claw back, I understand there will be no contest there.
Sep 9, 2023, 3:00 pm
#784
Join Date: Sep 2023
Posts: 3
I am definitely cautious about my inexperience ruining it for other MSers in my area. Looks like I completely forgot to change to debit by letting the CSR know I need to swipe first before they enter the MO amount. Will try to go to another WM and try again another time.
Sep 10, 2023, 1:08 am
#785
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: LAX, SNA
Programs: B6 M4, AA Plat Pro, Hyatt Globalist, IHG Diamond Amb, Marriott Titanium, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 1,475
I am definitely cautious about my inexperience ruining it for other MSers in my area. Looks like I completely forgot to change to debit by letting the CSR know I need to swipe first before they enter the MO amount. Will try to go to another WM and try again another time.
Sep 10, 2023, 3:33 am
#786
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Continental Onepass, Hilton, Marriott, USAir and now UA
Posts: 6,443
I am definitely cautious about my inexperience ruining it for other MSers in my area. Looks like I completely forgot to change to debit by letting the CSR know I need to swipe first before they enter the MO amount. Will try to go to another WM and try again another time.
It appears that you have been reading the threads
However, a closer perusal will show you that using MCGCs has been quite difficult to use for MOs at WM and elsewhere.
In fact, there are DPs out there of them being difficult to use for ordinary organic spend. Most of us tend to now avoid them.
However, you are simply experiencing the normal bumps in the road that all have felt in this game. Keep at it
Sep 10, 2023, 3:40 am
#787
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Continental Onepass, Hilton, Marriott, USAir and now UA
Posts: 6,443
To this date I have not lost a single point. I was talking about can they claw back after the accounts were closed say more than 2 months ago to upto 4 years ago and points had been cash backed.
If the account is open and they claw back, I understand there will be no contest there.
If the account is open and they claw back, I understand there will be no contest there.
However, unless they file a lawsuit, there is no way for them to take what isn't there. I don't remember any DPs on such an event happening but I guess in uber gross cases, it could. For most big businesses, just not worth the time, effort or cost. Banning is the usual punishment.
That being said, you can go into this Citi Thread and read about how AA screwed with people who had 'done them wrong'.
It is possible in some cases for a company to get even with malefactors.
Sep 12, 2023, 7:43 am
#791
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Continental Onepass, Hilton, Marriott, USAir and now UA
Posts: 6,443
However, if you are going to close the account, and you have earned and used the points, the only thing the credit card company can do is ban you from future business with them..
Just like us, most credit card companies don't like to be conned.
Sep 16, 2023, 4:47 am
#792
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 319
10x is practically a cult. They infiltrate other groups to try to get members. They pimp their free course even though the group they’re posting in also has a free course. Almost all FB travel groups do. If you post asking questions, everyone will jump on you and ask if you took the free course.
Sep 16, 2023, 6:10 am
#793
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Seattle, WA. USA
Programs: MR, AA, UA, DL, AVIS and growing
Posts: 1,172
I'm raking up a lot of points from one company over and over, i was wondering if there is some fine prints that company lawyer boys can find to claw back the rewards they paid you over the years, even after the accounts were closed. or at the most they can claw back on open/current accounts but once the accounts were closed then it is one and done type of situation.
Sep 16, 2023, 6:15 am
#794
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Seattle, WA. USA
Programs: MR, AA, UA, DL, AVIS and growing
Posts: 1,172
10x is practically a cult. They infiltrate other groups to try to get members. They pimp their free course even though the group they’re posting in also has a free course. Almost all FB travel groups do. If you post asking questions, everyone will jump on you and ask if you took the free course.
I know one person personally on 10x.....thsi person comments often but doesn't tell you to go to the course seems only 3 or so females keep forcing this comment.
I also find some giving inaccurate advice which si why I sample multiple web sites for datapoints.
Since this thread is MS.....MS is dead in my area.
Sep 18, 2023, 5:37 pm
#795
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Seattle, WA. USA
Programs: MR, AA, UA, DL, AVIS and growing
Posts: 1,172
10x is practically a cult. They infiltrate other groups to try to get members. They pimp their free course even though the group they’re posting in also has a free course. Almost all FB travel groups do. If you post asking questions, everyone will jump on you and ask if you took the free course.
IN groups like Trick IT they'll chop your head off zero help to learn Fuel Dumping or in the Gift Card churning won't identify city and location buying GC's or buying MOs.
However, when you get to CC churning the information is all over the internet and FT also answers how to churn CC's.
So the moderators all act differently and like 10X have their own level of harshness.