Jan 3, 2019, 1:46 pm
Last edit by: randomperson24
NEW TO MS? It's suggested that new arrivals should do some serious reading for a month of all the posts and wiki to get an understanding of MS before asking common questions.
Note: the 2017 - 2018 version of this thread is here, 2016 version of this thread is here, the 2015 version of the thread is here
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. Marathon Man did not write this message, but he has edited it and anyone can. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. High "View Count" and "Replies" are good indicators of active "master threads" on a specific topic.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
3) A glossary wiki for MS located in the thread Glossary, Manufactured Spending Forum
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. Some might argue that MS is like card counting in a casino. It is not illegal but casinos dont like it. Orhers have said its like having a fake ID in college to use just to get into bars where all the fun is. Just because it worked here yesterday doesnt mean it will get you in today. MS is like being a wood worker constantly using a table saw. Always watch what you are doingalways! Or you will lose something. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is legal.
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
6) MSing can be used for a variety of purposes, ranging from smallish amounts to meet minimum spend requirements to get a credit card signup bonus, to accumulating huge numbers of points for travel/cashback/etc. Remember too that you will often have expenses such as purchase fees, liquidation fees, and gas.
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
- A helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS
New MSers can also read all these threads:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...-spending-719/
Note: the 2017 - 2018 version of this thread is here, 2016 version of this thread is here, the 2015 version of the thread is here
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. Marathon Man did not write this message, but he has edited it and anyone can. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. High "View Count" and "Replies" are good indicators of active "master threads" on a specific topic.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
3) A glossary wiki for MS located in the thread Glossary, Manufactured Spending Forum
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. Some might argue that MS is like card counting in a casino. It is not illegal but casinos dont like it. Orhers have said its like having a fake ID in college to use just to get into bars where all the fun is. Just because it worked here yesterday doesnt mean it will get you in today. MS is like being a wood worker constantly using a table saw. Always watch what you are doingalways! Or you will lose something. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is legal.
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
6) MSing can be used for a variety of purposes, ranging from smallish amounts to meet minimum spend requirements to get a credit card signup bonus, to accumulating huge numbers of points for travel/cashback/etc. Remember too that you will often have expenses such as purchase fees, liquidation fees, and gas.
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
- A helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS
New MSers can also read all these threads:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...-spending-719/
New to Manufactured Spending? Start here (2019-2024)
Jun 17, 2023, 6:52 pm
#736
Join Date: Apr 2023
Posts: 184
I work on the following principle which many do not.....
I believe that cards such as Serve, and BB replace bank checking accounts for people who cannot afford them, or have no access to such. This group of consumers are low middle class folk who probably earn between $25-40/hr and deposit their paycheck into these accounts. They then pay their bills, rent, utilities, health care and maybe one or two credit cards of low amount each month.
What this group of people do not do is:
-deposit huge sums of money into the account and then move it (push) to another outside bank account
-withdraw huge amounts of cash on a daily or thrice weekly from an ATM
-bill pay large credit card bills
Now don't take me wrong! There are tons of DPs out there where people say that they are doing all of the above and have been for years or decades
without issue, but when I did it, I was shut down by BB. Furthermore, many who did the above and were indeed exiled are no longer with us and cannot or don't wish to tell their tales of woe.
So it is up to you and your level of tolerance to the consequences of what appears to be a lifetime ban with BB Amex if they choose to can you.
I believe that cards such as Serve, and BB replace bank checking accounts for people who cannot afford them, or have no access to such. This group of consumers are low middle class folk who probably earn between $25-40/hr and deposit their paycheck into these accounts. They then pay their bills, rent, utilities, health care and maybe one or two credit cards of low amount each month.
What this group of people do not do is:
-deposit huge sums of money into the account and then move it (push) to another outside bank account
-withdraw huge amounts of cash on a daily or thrice weekly from an ATM
-bill pay large credit card bills
Now don't take me wrong! There are tons of DPs out there where people say that they are doing all of the above and have been for years or decades
without issue, but when I did it, I was shut down by BB. Furthermore, many who did the above and were indeed exiled are no longer with us and cannot or don't wish to tell their tales of woe.So it is up to you and your level of tolerance to the consequences of what appears to be a lifetime ban with BB Amex if they choose to can you.
Jun 18, 2023, 4:17 pm
#737
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: LAX, SNA
Programs: B6 M4, AA Plat Pro, WoH Globalist, IHG Diamond Amb, MB Titanium, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 1,507
Jun 20, 2023, 2:54 pm
#739
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 185
The $200 BHN VGCs come in a dark blue package. The card itself is bright yellow.
I buy these at Staples and OD because they were working for liquidation up until 1-2 months ago. Now $99 swipes don't even go through.
I would like to convert my existing stock to DE/GE because of reports that they work better. However, I don't think OD allows purchase of DE/GE with other VGC.
I buy these at Staples and OD because they were working for liquidation up until 1-2 months ago. Now $99 swipes don't even go through.
I would like to convert my existing stock to DE/GE because of reports that they work better. However, I don't think OD allows purchase of DE/GE with other VGC.
I will try again the next time Staples has the no activation fee for VGC.
Jun 20, 2023, 2:56 pm
#740
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 185
I work on the following principle which many do not.....
I believe that cards such as Serve, and BB replace bank checking accounts for people who cannot afford them, or have no access to such. This group of consumers are low middle class folk who probably earn between $25-40/hr and deposit their paycheck into these accounts. They then pay their bills, rent, utilities, health care and maybe one or two credit cards of low amount each month.
What this group of people do not do is:
-deposit huge sums of money into the account and then move it (push) to another outside bank account
-withdraw huge amounts of cash on a daily or thrice weekly from an ATM
-bill pay large credit card bills
Now don't take me wrong! There are tons of DPs out there where people say that they are doing all of the above and have been for years or decades without issue, but when I did it, I was shut down by BB. Furthermore, many who did the above and were indeed exiled are no longer with us and cannot or don't wish to tell their tales of woe.
So it is up to you and your level of tolerance to the consequences of what appears to be a lifetime ban with BB Amex if they choose to can you.
I believe that cards such as Serve, and BB replace bank checking accounts for people who cannot afford them, or have no access to such. This group of consumers are low middle class folk who probably earn between $25-40/hr and deposit their paycheck into these accounts. They then pay their bills, rent, utilities, health care and maybe one or two credit cards of low amount each month.
What this group of people do not do is:
-deposit huge sums of money into the account and then move it (push) to another outside bank account
-withdraw huge amounts of cash on a daily or thrice weekly from an ATM
-bill pay large credit card bills
Now don't take me wrong! There are tons of DPs out there where people say that they are doing all of the above and have been for years or decades
without issue, but when I did it, I was shut down by BB. Furthermore, many who did the above and were indeed exiled are no longer with us and cannot or don't wish to tell their tales of woe.So it is up to you and your level of tolerance to the consequences of what appears to be a lifetime ban with BB Amex if they choose to can you.
$50K - $80K is solid middle class.
Federal Poverty Level for 2023 is $14,580 for an individual.
Jun 21, 2023, 9:25 am
#741
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Continental Onepass, Hilton, Marriott, USAir and now UA
Posts: 6,474
Are you part of the middle class? This calculator can tell you
State Single Couple Family of four
U.S. average $26,093 – $78,280 $36,902 – $110,705 $52,187 – $156,560
You can find your own state and see where this article thinks you lie.
Jun 21, 2023, 9:08 pm
#743
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: LAX, SNA
Programs: B6 M4, AA Plat Pro, WoH Globalist, IHG Diamond Amb, MB Titanium, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 1,507
Jun 22, 2023, 9:26 am
#744
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 837
I copied this from the following:
Are you part of the middle class? This calculator can tell you
State Single Couple Family of four
U.S. average $26,093 $78,280 $36,902 $110,705 $52,187 $156,560
You can find your own state and see where this article thinks you lie.
Are you part of the middle class? This calculator can tell you
State Single Couple Family of four
U.S. average $26,093 $78,280 $36,902 $110,705 $52,187 $156,560
You can find your own state and see where this article thinks you lie.
Jun 23, 2023, 8:52 am
#745
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 185
I copied this from the following:
Are you part of the middle class? This calculator can tell you
State Single Couple Family of four
U.S. average $26,093 – $78,280 $36,902 – $110,705 $52,187 – $156,560
You can find your own state and see where this article thinks you lie.
Are you part of the middle class? This calculator can tell you
State Single Couple Family of four
U.S. average $26,093 – $78,280 $36,902 – $110,705 $52,187 – $156,560
You can find your own state and see where this article thinks you lie.
Jun 23, 2023, 8:54 am
#746
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 185
Jun 23, 2023, 10:22 am
#747
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 837
I dont go after 5% cards, after fees, gas etc, it might be 3-3.5% return and they have quarterly limits. Not worth it IMO especially my local walmart has been acting up lately. Getting new CC is also becoming difficult given 05/24 rules etc. Just have to find a gap and then play that till it lasts!
Jun 24, 2023, 1:34 pm
#748
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 185
I dont go after 5% cards, after fees, gas etc, it might be 3-3.5% return and they have quarterly limits. Not worth it IMO especially my local walmart has been acting up lately. Getting new CC is also becoming difficult given 05/24 rules etc. Just have to find a gap and then play that till it lasts!
Jun 28, 2023, 1:37 pm
#749
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 837
Note: MS is not consistent
Jul 3, 2023, 12:09 pm
#750
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 837
The girl /Woman (store manager) at Walgreen
What do you do with so many gift cards?
Me: Business
She: what kind of business ( at this point I wanted to say you are not supposed to ask these questions but I thought that would piss her off)
Me: All kinds of business ( just wanted to say soemthing very vague and stupid)
She: Is quite
Me: after a while as she is scanning the card, I buy flight tickets to fly people for my business and you earn points.
She: at this point she say no you earn points.
I said of course and got the hell out of there.
I dont think she is going to ask me again what am I doing with gift cards.
When asked say something stupid that makes zero sense but with confidence like you know how the world works!
What do you do with so many gift cards?
Me: Business
She: what kind of business ( at this point I wanted to say you are not supposed to ask these questions but I thought that would piss her off)
Me: All kinds of business ( just wanted to say soemthing very vague and stupid)
She: Is quite
Me: after a while as she is scanning the card, I buy flight tickets to fly people for my business and you earn points.
She: at this point she say no you earn points.
I said of course and got the hell out of there.
I dont think she is going to ask me again what am I doing with gift cards.
When asked say something stupid that makes zero sense but with confidence like you know how the world works!
Last edited by Gitangali; Jul 6, 2023 at 7:49 pm