Future of MS
Jun 2, 2014, 5:20 am
#76
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 120
The low hanging fruit is so easy I'm not sure why everyone doesn't do it to some degree really. Just using basic techniques listed in this forum you can MS $2500/month with a few clicks of a mouse every month with NO FEES. A couple more clicks and $12.50 a month nets you another $2500 which nicely balances the first $2500. .
Jun 2, 2014, 7:26 am
#77
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SQSP
Programs: 1&2
Posts: 167
Jun 2, 2014, 8:33 am
#78
Join Date: May 2010
Programs: Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Diamond, SPG Gold, HH Diamond
Posts: 174
Doesn't make sense to me, either. Off the top of my head, there is one instrument I can think of with a load fee of $2.50 per $500. But you still have to get out the door to unload back to cash.
Jun 2, 2014, 9:00 am
#79
Join Date: May 2010
Programs: Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Diamond, SPG Gold, HH Diamond
Posts: 174
Believe it is harder going cash back, but have heard of some holding multiples of the same CB card. Over here we run cash back cards as only 3% of total credit line available in the portfolio. That said, miles and hotel points are stacking like cordwood. Some of our spend is just to bump status now. We caught Hilton cheap skating us golds on upgrades in Tokyo to avoid executive lounge costs, so we are running up to platinum (executive lounge access mandatory) as a countermeasure, for example. Figure executive lounge access comprises 25% of the value of our Hilton stays so running up points for platinum status there is cost effective.
That said, I will probably try to bring CB up to 6-9% as a percentage of total credit line outstanding this next year to begin generating cash as an offset to ADK Jr.'s student loans. I am just a few countries short of this year's goal of reaching 150 countries (TCC countries) visited and have more than enough miles to reach it.
That said, I will probably try to bring CB up to 6-9% as a percentage of total credit line outstanding this next year to begin generating cash as an offset to ADK Jr.'s student loans. I am just a few countries short of this year's goal of reaching 150 countries (TCC countries) visited and have more than enough miles to reach it.
Jun 2, 2014, 2:52 pm
#80
Formerly known as FTRox87
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: TX
Programs: AA/US 1M, AS, BA, CX, EK, EY, JL, KE, LH, NH, OS, QF, QR, TG, UA/CO | *$G
Posts: 1,428
I'm not sure I understand the math in this. Why would you keep CB at only 3%-9%? CB will give you 4% return, after overhead, give or take. What points do you value more than that to make the spend worthwhile? And even if you were taking flights in F and getting better than 4 cpm return, wouldn't you still keep a higher ratio of CB just because after a while you earn more miles than you can use? Unless you're taking vacations to Europe every month, the points do stack like cordwood, as you point out. Even if you're spending to Hilton plat, that $40k would take 1-2 weeks to MS. Where does your spend go after that? Importantly, that same $40k would get you roughly $1600 CB after overhead. That would buy quite a few breakfasts outside the exec lounge. And even when you go up to 9%, where do you allocate the other 91%? Maybe my priorities are upside down, but I'm trying to understand the logic.
... besides when you have dozens and dozens and dozens of cards, your CB CL can seemingly be a small %age of your total CL, but its still a good amount.
Jun 2, 2014, 3:38 pm
#81
Join Date: May 2009
Location: MSP
Programs: AA, DL, AS
Posts: 183
I think to MS in the 7 figures of points requires exponentially more time invested than something it the 6's. I probably MS about 10k a month more or less, spread across different category bonuses nets me about 250k or so points per year and it really involves minimal time (2-3 walmart trips per month). And I dont have any inclination to increase it above that. Not worth the diminishing returns!
The low hanging fruit is so easy I'm not sure why everyone doesn't do it to some degree really. Just using basic techniques listed in this forum you can MS $2500/month with a few clicks of a mouse every month with NO FEES. A couple more clicks and $12.50 a month nets you another $2500 which nicely balances the first $2500. After that, you start having to venture out of your house, depending on how much you can evolve.. anyways, I digress.
The low hanging fruit is so easy I'm not sure why everyone doesn't do it to some degree really. Just using basic techniques listed in this forum you can MS $2500/month with a few clicks of a mouse every month with NO FEES. A couple more clicks and $12.50 a month nets you another $2500 which nicely balances the first $2500. After that, you start having to venture out of your house, depending on how much you can evolve.. anyways, I digress.
Jun 2, 2014, 4:04 pm
#84
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: US/AA, UA, AS, BA, IHG, HGP
Posts: 223
Cordwood burns, seems to burn fast nowadays. Heck, I just dropped 125k for a US-EU roundtrip. Imagine if I had to do that for my SO too... or worse, dependents -shudder-. I can see how 9% of total outstanding would be feasible to cover co-pays and put a bit back in your pocket, while still getting the points necessary for group vacations and the occasional "aspirational" redemption.
I like my CB exposure higher, but I also don't push volume like ADK does.
I like my CB exposure higher, but I also don't push volume like ADK does.
Jun 2, 2014, 6:17 pm
#86
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: California
Posts: 1,129
I hate to speak for ADK, but my problem is the cap on 3-5% categories for CB plus opportunity cost in meeting minimum spend for signing bonuses. A mix of both is optimal, but I really would rather have cash than bucketloads of AA miles that have become very difficult to redeem at saver rates. It's not quite skypesos level yet, but it's getting too close.
Jun 2, 2014, 6:30 pm
#87
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New Jersey
Programs: Delta P, SPG G, Marriott S, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,007
It has gotten more difficult to wager through FT recently. So many more basic questions being asked over and over, and so many sky is falling posts. Maybe it's also partly due to me getting my system in place and ramping it up somewhat - and for that I am forever grateful to this Forum, and those that help keep it fresh and evolving.
This thread is very helpful. Reading about ADK and Maksimfa - thank you both for your continued contributions! - challenges me to fine-tune my approach, and to get out there and search for new avenues.
I seem to be running at about 3 to 4 points or cents per dollar over about 35k spend month with a mix of cards and avenues to spend/liquidate. I can up the spend, though since I am only in 2nd quarter at this level (and 8 months overall in this hobby), I will spend at least a few more months "training" my bankers both on the buy and well side.
I am truly impressed with those that claim higher overall results per dollar spent. Outside of the current windfall with AGCs, and the 5% cards, both of which I mix in, I am stumped.
This thread is very helpful. Reading about ADK and Maksimfa - thank you both for your continued contributions! - challenges me to fine-tune my approach, and to get out there and search for new avenues.
I seem to be running at about 3 to 4 points or cents per dollar over about 35k spend month with a mix of cards and avenues to spend/liquidate. I can up the spend, though since I am only in 2nd quarter at this level (and 8 months overall in this hobby), I will spend at least a few more months "training" my bankers both on the buy and well side.
I am truly impressed with those that claim higher overall results per dollar spent. Outside of the current windfall with AGCs, and the 5% cards, both of which I mix in, I am stumped.
For me personally, I value miles at about 1.5 cents per mile and Amex point as that is realistically what I will get if I have to liquidate them. For those flying in first class, let's take a look. If you can get a 5 cents a mile redemption, terrific, but is it really 5 cents if you were not willing to pay for a first class ticket anyway?
Is 10 hours of wine and dine in a little bit more space worth 5x the price of an Econ or Eco plus ticket? To me.... No. I would gladly spend the $1,000 on airfare and pocket the rest into a savings account. For people who need to travel in first class.... It is a different priority. To me money in the bank is more important than first class for a few hours.
Secondly, living in the north east with a lot of hubs, ticket prices are pretty low to begin with, so redemptions are not great anyway.
So for my family unit, cash is most preferred. Now, as part of our ms game, we generate points, miles, etc, however it is in addition to all the cash earned on the transaction. I would not even dream about swiping my delta or united cards for a regular transaction. Lol. However if I get back 4% cash plus 1 mile... Now we are talking. If you have not figured it out yet... Portals.
To supplement, we do run the Amex cash back cards at grocery stores and other 5% categories. The 2% and lower cash back cards are being only used right now, as long as opportunity is still there, with portals, for a net cash back of 5 to 6.6% cash back.
End of the day, you have to know what your goals are, take inventory of the tools that you have , and implement it. If there is a is a missing tool, get it, but most of all, have goals, stay focused, and do it. Over three months my ms went from low $20k to over $100k. Will likely soon be $2xxk.
Nothing fancy, just a plan.
Jun 2, 2014, 6:42 pm
#88
Join Date: Apr 2012
Programs: 25 million points to burn!
Posts: 1,522
I focus on points/miles for MS instead of CB for this reason: I'm able to make way more money with way less work by stock investing. I simply don't want to pay first class prices for flights and the best hotels, I'd rather keep my money for other things. I know it's not either/or, but for me if I can just break even on my points/miles spending, I'm pretty happy.
The 4M points/miles I earned last year almost cost me nothing when the dust settled.
Different strokes for different folks.
The 4M points/miles I earned last year almost cost me nothing when the dust settled.
Different strokes for different folks.
Jun 2, 2014, 6:51 pm
#89
Formerly known as FTRox87
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: TX
Programs: AA/US 1M, AS, BA, CX, EK, EY, JL, KE, LH, NH, OS, QF, QR, TG, UA/CO | *$G
Posts: 1,428
I hate to speak for ADK, but my problem is the cap on 3-5% categories for CB plus opportunity cost in meeting minimum spend for signing bonuses. A mix of both is optimal, but I really would rather have cash than bucketloads of AA miles that have become very difficult to redeem at saver rates. It's not quite skypesos level yet, but it's getting too close.