Wal-Mart, Amex take on banks with Bluebird debit card
Nov 20, 2012, 11:09 pm
#2926
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas
Programs: AA Gold, Starwood Gold
Posts: 125
Well that is just peachy keen. Why bother asking for info when you do not use it? That would explain a bit why the bank would not understand what account to credit it to. Be interested to see what the copy of the check shows.
Nov 20, 2012, 11:21 pm
#2927
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: LAX
Posts: 670
Abuse of this system by people creating artificial shortages is still one of the most likely causes of OD pulling these cards (just behind people who paid for these cards although they probably were not primarily interested in miles/points but in the laundering aspects these cards can offer). And I stand by my earlier prediction that OD may return these cards to the stores with adequate security that insures that cards just don't walk out of the stores without money being loaded into them. The corollary is that stores like CVS may pull them if they encounter the same issues OD did.
Well said.
There are lots of ways we can screw this up. We need to be careful not to.
After a LOT of searching, I recently found one outlet nearby that will allow purchasing of VRs with a credit card. I've tried 3 times. First two times, cashiers were relaxed, younger, and never questioned my purchase - just checked my ID, reminded me that the reload cards were non-refundable, and let me buy them. A very low key transaction, no drama at all.
Today I went back for a third round. Different cashier, older lady - looked like she could be a manager. As soon as I handed the card and started going for my credit card, she reared up and firmly scolded me: "Oh no, we do not accept credit cards for these. You can't buy a prepaid card with another card." I probed gently: "Really - are you sure? I've bought them before with a credit card..." She responded: "It's corporate policy. I hope it wasn't here - if you paid for one with a credit card here, someone made a mistake and violated our policy..." (implied: and they're gonna get in trouble...). Me: "Oh, no, not here - at a different store in (name of another city)". Her: "Good." I apologized for "my mistake" and offered to put the VR back on the rack to save her the trouble of restocking it. She nodded, and that's what I did. I thanked her and left.
Of course, this was BS on my part - I had been in there the previous 2 days, and when I paid for the VR, their register offered me the choice of cash, debit or credit. In other stores, the cashier would show me a popup window on their screen that said "CASH ONLY!". This register was not set up that way.
Safely out of sight back in my car, I then made a note of what the day/time it was, and what she looked like. I will be sure that the next time I try, it'll be with a different cashier. I remember what the others look like and the day/time they were there.
The moral of the story: we are skating around the periphery of what's allowed, and we all need to be careful not to wreck the fragile status quo. Your efforts should be low-impact. If you have success, or if you get turned away, don't screw it up for yourself and everyone else - keep things discreet, don't push it, and don't give anyone a reason to make a stink about it. I could easily see this lady circulating a memo to all employees warning them not to take credit cards for VRs. I think I convinced her that wasn't needed. I'll be careful to note the cashier before I try again.
I want this to last. Slow and steady, below the radar, is the way to get the biggest benefit out of this. Resist the temptation to go "all-in".
There are lots of ways we can screw this up. We need to be careful not to.
After a LOT of searching, I recently found one outlet nearby that will allow purchasing of VRs with a credit card. I've tried 3 times. First two times, cashiers were relaxed, younger, and never questioned my purchase - just checked my ID, reminded me that the reload cards were non-refundable, and let me buy them. A very low key transaction, no drama at all.
Today I went back for a third round. Different cashier, older lady - looked like she could be a manager. As soon as I handed the card and started going for my credit card, she reared up and firmly scolded me: "Oh no, we do not accept credit cards for these. You can't buy a prepaid card with another card." I probed gently: "Really - are you sure? I've bought them before with a credit card..." She responded: "It's corporate policy. I hope it wasn't here - if you paid for one with a credit card here, someone made a mistake and violated our policy..." (implied: and they're gonna get in trouble...). Me: "Oh, no, not here - at a different store in (name of another city)". Her: "Good." I apologized for "my mistake" and offered to put the VR back on the rack to save her the trouble of restocking it. She nodded, and that's what I did. I thanked her and left.
Of course, this was BS on my part - I had been in there the previous 2 days, and when I paid for the VR, their register offered me the choice of cash, debit or credit. In other stores, the cashier would show me a popup window on their screen that said "CASH ONLY!". This register was not set up that way.
Safely out of sight back in my car, I then made a note of what the day/time it was, and what she looked like. I will be sure that the next time I try, it'll be with a different cashier. I remember what the others look like and the day/time they were there.
The moral of the story: we are skating around the periphery of what's allowed, and we all need to be careful not to wreck the fragile status quo. Your efforts should be low-impact. If you have success, or if you get turned away, don't screw it up for yourself and everyone else - keep things discreet, don't push it, and don't give anyone a reason to make a stink about it. I could easily see this lady circulating a memo to all employees warning them not to take credit cards for VRs. I think I convinced her that wasn't needed. I'll be careful to note the cashier before I try again.
I want this to last. Slow and steady, below the radar, is the way to get the biggest benefit out of this. Resist the temptation to go "all-in".
I am a bit curious, however, of this: Unless it messes up with a specific store's inventory and/or is noted by barcode sets or something, what use would the blank card be to anyone unless the person with it were to go back INTO a store and actually buy/load it anyway? In other words, it could be like you walked out of a store with a pack of gum, drove away, realized you took it and stopped into the next store of that chain and walked in and paid for it. A bit like that, that is.
Again I am just curious. I also hope this thread doesnt get all 'psuedo-moral-ethical...'
Again I am just curious. I also hope this thread doesnt get all 'psuedo-moral-ethical...'
Aside from all of the issues potentially noticed and/or experienced by OD, it's also kind of a jerk-ish move to fellow FTers.
I know it's silly, but I still have hope that people can be taught to act in their long-term best interests. @:-)
Nov 20, 2012, 11:22 pm
#2928
Moderator: Chase Ultimate Rewards
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 2P, MR LT Plat, IHG Plat, BW Dia, HH Au, Avis PC
Posts: 5,456
The $3,500 in GC's from OD would be a very aggressive move on my part and I'm still not sure I'm comfortable with it but my Chase banker told me as long as I stay within the allowable limits for office supply purchases I would be fine.
Nov 20, 2012, 11:27 pm
#2929
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: RDU
Posts: 679
I personally don't like automated payments, I like checking for fraudulent charges or fees on my accounts.
Nov 20, 2012, 11:44 pm
#2930
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: BOS
Programs: UA 1K, AA GLD
Posts: 237
and based on that post maybe a good strategy would be to fully write "account number xxx for yyyy service" in the account number field, so whatever automated beancounter doesn't think it's some random "check number" or something.
I've wondered if I'm figuring a reasonable return on this venture.
My mortgage is about $3,200 + change. If I purchased $3,500 in VGC at OD to get the 5x spend the activation fees would total ($5.95 x 7 = $41.65) $42. Then to the CVS for 7 VR's for another ($3.95 x 7 = $27.65) $28. Roughly $70 in fees for 17,500 UR points (miles). Not knowing exactly what we'll do with the miles but it would most likely be Business Class from DTW or ORD to Europe. I checked DTW to LHR next June and came up with a sample fare of $4,200. To be conservative I then figured a point would be worth roughly $.03 - $.04. At $.03 the 17,500 UR points are a return of $455.
Am I doing this right?
The $3,500 in GC's from OD would be a very aggressive move on my part and I'm still not sure I'm comfortable with it but my Chase banker told me...
My mortgage is about $3,200 + change. If I purchased $3,500 in VGC at OD to get the 5x spend the activation fees would total ($5.95 x 7 = $41.65) $42. Then to the CVS for 7 VR's for another ($3.95 x 7 = $27.65) $28. Roughly $70 in fees for 17,500 UR points (miles). Not knowing exactly what we'll do with the miles but it would most likely be Business Class from DTW or ORD to Europe. I checked DTW to LHR next June and came up with a sample fare of $4,200. To be conservative I then figured a point would be worth roughly $.03 - $.04. At $.03 the 17,500 UR points are a return of $455.
Am I doing this right?
The $3,500 in GC's from OD would be a very aggressive move on my part and I'm still not sure I'm comfortable with it but my Chase banker told me...
also i wouldn't really take a Chase "banker" seriously, especially with the CC game. bet they probably can't even name the 3 credit bureaus or how to call for recon. but the fact that you're uncomfortable charging $3500 for essentially cash equivalents IMO means you probably shouldn't do it unless you have additional spend to back it up.
Last edited by psychoandy; Nov 20, 2012 at 11:50 pm
Nov 21, 2012, 12:15 am
#2931
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,689
Wasn't really trying to question you, it's just that your answer was very short.
I thought I had read some had reported being able to use the target card for reload on the Bird. However, apparently not.
So, as I stated before, I have no experience and will take your word for it. Thanks for the info., it will probably save others time as well.
Nov 21, 2012, 12:29 am
#2932
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 301
In my case, Vanilla loading error 180 was because of over 5K monthly loading limit on BB side.
I also experienced a lot of trouble with both BB and Vanilla CSR before finally figuring out the problem, Vanilla CSR were useless, the 2-3 I talked to claim Vanilla reload cards couldn't be use to load into BB. It was terrible experience talking to them.
I also experienced a lot of trouble with both BB and Vanilla CSR before finally figuring out the problem, Vanilla CSR were useless, the 2-3 I talked to claim Vanilla reload cards couldn't be use to load into BB. It was terrible experience talking to them.
The game is novel and profitable until something goes wrong, then you have to deal with Bluebird's and/or Vanilla's customer service, and it becomes an unprofitable time-sucker. Hope those of you who experience problems have better luck than I have had so far. After loading seven beans this month and paying CC bills, beans could no longer be loaded onto my Bluebird card (I had loaded one that day, but minutes later, the second wouldn't load and the error message 180 appeared; it wasn't the bean, as it loaded successfully onto my wife's Bluebird).
I had to wait half an hour or so to speak to a Bluebird CSR. Bluebird CSRs are beyond useless -- no knowledge base or training whatsoever. Their training consists of establishing and reestablishing the same facts over and over and over and over again. When being asked the same questions does not solve the problem and you finally ask to a CSR manager or someone who can fix the problem, you are disconnected.
The Vanilla CSRs are much better trained and customer-service oriented. A rep said they'd have to put their heads together with those at Bluebird and that I should try loading my Bluebird in 24 hours. He gave me a ticket number, and told me to call back if the problem isn't fixed within 72 hours. The problem hasn't been fixed within 72 hours, and I'll have to call a third time tomorrow. But at least protocols are in place, and they give you the impression the IT department is working on it or will be working on it soon. Maybe that's wishful thinking.
In the meantime, however, it's been three days, I have thousands of dollars of beans that need to incrementally be loaded, and I don't know for certain I'll be able to load them onto my card (awful glad my wife has a BB, too). The terrible customer service makes me question if this is worth it. It's bad enough that I may stop playing.
I had to wait half an hour or so to speak to a Bluebird CSR. Bluebird CSRs are beyond useless -- no knowledge base or training whatsoever. Their training consists of establishing and reestablishing the same facts over and over and over and over again. When being asked the same questions does not solve the problem and you finally ask to a CSR manager or someone who can fix the problem, you are disconnected.
The Vanilla CSRs are much better trained and customer-service oriented. A rep said they'd have to put their heads together with those at Bluebird and that I should try loading my Bluebird in 24 hours. He gave me a ticket number, and told me to call back if the problem isn't fixed within 72 hours. The problem hasn't been fixed within 72 hours, and I'll have to call a third time tomorrow. But at least protocols are in place, and they give you the impression the IT department is working on it or will be working on it soon. Maybe that's wishful thinking.
In the meantime, however, it's been three days, I have thousands of dollars of beans that need to incrementally be loaded, and I don't know for certain I'll be able to load them onto my card (awful glad my wife has a BB, too). The terrible customer service makes me question if this is worth it. It's bad enough that I may stop playing.
Nov 21, 2012, 12:46 am
#2933
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LAS
Programs: DL PM, UA PS, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 4,904
Nov 21, 2012, 1:09 am
#2934
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 104
turns out I had walked out of WG with the wrong card :-|
Paid for and activated a card and walked out with another. Asst Mgr was super helpful and offered to let me scratch all cards they had in stock to find the one I HAD activated.
I declined for now and he is holding all cards in store until they can figure out which one is mine
Paid for and activated a card and walked out with another. Asst Mgr was super helpful and offered to let me scratch all cards they had in stock to find the one I HAD activated.
I declined for now and he is holding all cards in store until they can figure out which one is mine
Nov 21, 2012, 6:04 am
#2935
Formerly known as cagalindo
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: MCO TPA
Programs: Citi AA/HH/TYP Amex SPG/HH & Chase SP/PC
Posts: 1,335
^ hahahahaha... well that is a good idea to keep all VRs in stock.
Nov 21, 2012, 6:53 am
#2936
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Programs: AA EXP, SPG Plat, Marriott Plat, Hertz 5*
Posts: 234
turns out I had walked out of WG with the wrong card :-|
Paid for and activated a card and walked out with another. Asst Mgr was super helpful and offered to let me scratch all cards they had in stock to find the one I HAD activated.
I declined for now and he is holding all cards in store until they can figure out which one is mine
Paid for and activated a card and walked out with another. Asst Mgr was super helpful and offered to let me scratch all cards they had in stock to find the one I HAD activated.
I declined for now and he is holding all cards in store until they can figure out which one is mine
Nov 21, 2012, 7:36 am
#2937
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: UA Gold, AA Gold, Hyatt Plat, SPG Gold, Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, Hertz Pres Circle, etc etc
Posts: 382
Nov 21, 2012, 7:40 am
#2938
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 377
The game is novel and profitable until something goes wrong, then you have to deal with Bluebird's and/or Vanilla's customer service, and it becomes an unprofitable time-sucker. Hope those of you who experience problems have better luck than I have had so far. After loading seven beans this month and paying CC bills, beans could no longer be loaded onto my Bluebird card (I had loaded one that day, but minutes later, the second wouldn't load and the error message 180 appeared; it wasn't the bean, as it loaded successfully onto my wife's Bluebird).
I had to wait half an hour or so to speak to a Bluebird CSR. Bluebird CSRs are beyond useless -- no knowledge base or training whatsoever. Their training consists of establishing and reestablishing the same facts over and over and over and over again. When being asked the same questions does not solve the problem and you finally ask to a CSR manager or someone who can fix the problem, you are disconnected.
The Vanilla CSRs are much better trained and customer-service oriented. A rep said they'd have to put their heads together with those at Bluebird and that I should try loading my Bluebird in 24 hours. He gave me a ticket number, and told me to call back if the problem isn't fixed within 72 hours. The problem hasn't been fixed within 72 hours, and I'll have to call a third time tomorrow. But at least protocols are in place, and they give you the impression the IT department is working on it or will be working on it soon. Maybe that's wishful thinking.
In the meantime, however, it's been three days, I have thousands of dollars of beans that need to incrementally be loaded, and I don't know for certain I'll be able to load them onto my card (awful glad my wife has a BB, too). The terrible customer service makes me question if this is worth it. It's bad enough that I may stop playing.
I had to wait half an hour or so to speak to a Bluebird CSR. Bluebird CSRs are beyond useless -- no knowledge base or training whatsoever. Their training consists of establishing and reestablishing the same facts over and over and over and over again. When being asked the same questions does not solve the problem and you finally ask to a CSR manager or someone who can fix the problem, you are disconnected.
The Vanilla CSRs are much better trained and customer-service oriented. A rep said they'd have to put their heads together with those at Bluebird and that I should try loading my Bluebird in 24 hours. He gave me a ticket number, and told me to call back if the problem isn't fixed within 72 hours. The problem hasn't been fixed within 72 hours, and I'll have to call a third time tomorrow. But at least protocols are in place, and they give you the impression the IT department is working on it or will be working on it soon. Maybe that's wishful thinking.
In the meantime, however, it's been three days, I have thousands of dollars of beans that need to incrementally be loaded, and I don't know for certain I'll be able to load them onto my card (awful glad my wife has a BB, too). The terrible customer service makes me question if this is worth it. It's bad enough that I may stop playing.
Nov 21, 2012, 7:56 am
#2939
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 586
Quick data point for using Billpay to Wells Fargo Home Mortgages:
If you input the wrong loan number, the payment will still go through Bluebird's system but Wells Fargo won't process it. I had to call in to Bluebird to file a dispute and according to them, I will get an answer within 2 business days. Luckily Wells Fargo was patient with me about the mixed up payments and waived any late fees for this month. I went ahead and used their online system to make the payment via my checking account. No extra CC spend this month for me but could be worse.
If you input the wrong loan number, the payment will still go through Bluebird's system but Wells Fargo won't process it. I had to call in to Bluebird to file a dispute and according to them, I will get an answer within 2 business days. Luckily Wells Fargo was patient with me about the mixed up payments and waived any late fees for this month. I went ahead and used their online system to make the payment via my checking account. No extra CC spend this month for me but could be worse.
Nov 21, 2012, 8:05 am
#2940
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Houston
Programs: HiltonH-Diamond, IHG-Plat, Hyatt-Diamond,SPG-newbie
Posts: 301
Originally Posted by gardengir
I've wondered if I'm figuring a reasonable return on this venture.
My mortgage is about $3,200 + change. If I purchased $3,500 in VGC at OD to get the 5x spend the activation fees would total ($5.95 x 7 = $41.65) $42. Then to the CVS for 7 VR's for another ($3.95 x 7 = $27.65) $28. Roughly $70 in fees for 17,500 UR points (miles). Not knowing exactly what we'll do with the miles but it would most likely be Business Class from DTW or ORD to Europe. I checked DTW to LHR next June and came up with a sample fare of $4,200. To be conservative I then figured a point would be worth roughly $.03 - $.04. At $.03 the 17,500 UR points are a return of $455.
Am I doing this right?
The $3,500 in GC's from OD would be a very aggressive move on my part and I'm still not sure I'm comfortable with it but my Chase banker told me...
My mortgage is about $3,200 + change. If I purchased $3,500 in VGC at OD to get the 5x spend the activation fees would total ($5.95 x 7 = $41.65) $42. Then to the CVS for 7 VR's for another ($3.95 x 7 = $27.65) $28. Roughly $70 in fees for 17,500 UR points (miles). Not knowing exactly what we'll do with the miles but it would most likely be Business Class from DTW or ORD to Europe. I checked DTW to LHR next June and came up with a sample fare of $4,200. To be conservative I then figured a point would be worth roughly $.03 - $.04. At $.03 the 17,500 UR points are a return of $455.
Am I doing this right?
The $3,500 in GC's from OD would be a very aggressive move on my part and I'm still not sure I'm comfortable with it but my Chase banker told me...
also i wouldn't really take a Chase "banker" seriously, especially with the CC game. bet they probably can't even name the 3 credit bureaus or how to call for recon. but the fact that you're uncomfortable charging $3500 for essentially cash equivalents IMO means you probably shouldn't do it unless you have additional spend to back it up.