New Aman, Azerai, GHM & Ahn Luh Resorts - 2019 edition
Aug 8, 2019, 9:03 pm
#32
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This is a tough one for me: gay Jewish-raised atheist as I am. That being said, I've had amazing visits and stays in many Muslim nations and very much appreciate many parts of Muslim culture. Obviously, I very much disdain other parts of Muslim culture. (Of course, conservative Christian and conservative Jewish culture aren't always so great, either. Not to mention Hindu India having its own share of issues.)
The question about whether or not it is appropriate to visit Saudi Arabia reminds me of the same question about Burma/Myanmar some years ago, if for different reasons.
I would consider the Amans in Saudi Arabia with the caveat that I would expect to be able to behave on property in the same ways as I might at any other Aman or luxury hotel around the world--including being able to hold hands (ew!) and kiss my husband, just as I would imagine that women would be free to not wear a hijab while on property. Off property, I would expect it appropriate to behave in a much more conservative manner, particularly when visiting any public sites.
Assuming those caveats are as I might hope, I wouldn't think visiting these Aman properties would be very different from visiting many luxury hotels throughout the more conservative/repressed world. Assuming those caveats are as I hope, I also would expect a very self-selecting group will visit just as is true at other conservative/repressed places in the world.
If those caveats are not as I might hope, I won't visit. Problem solved.
I'm happy at least to see Aman moving back to a new location that isn't urban.
The question about whether or not it is appropriate to visit Saudi Arabia reminds me of the same question about Burma/Myanmar some years ago, if for different reasons.
I would consider the Amans in Saudi Arabia with the caveat that I would expect to be able to behave on property in the same ways as I might at any other Aman or luxury hotel around the world--including being able to hold hands (ew!) and kiss my husband, just as I would imagine that women would be free to not wear a hijab while on property. Off property, I would expect it appropriate to behave in a much more conservative manner, particularly when visiting any public sites.
Assuming those caveats are as I might hope, I wouldn't think visiting these Aman properties would be very different from visiting many luxury hotels throughout the more conservative/repressed world. Assuming those caveats are as I hope, I also would expect a very self-selecting group will visit just as is true at other conservative/repressed places in the world.
If those caveats are not as I might hope, I won't visit. Problem solved.
I'm happy at least to see Aman moving back to a new location that isn't urban.
Last edited by bhrubin; Aug 9, 2019 at 2:53 am
Aug 9, 2019, 1:05 am
#33
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 1,644
My understanding is that visas for Saudi Arabia are difficult to obtain unless you have a sponsor or some sort of pressing need to be there - tourism just doesn't count. So my hunch is that these resorts are aimed initially at Saudi citizens and expats working within the country.
If you got the visa, could you drive there from Jordan?
If you got the visa, could you drive there from Jordan?
Aug 9, 2019, 2:48 am
#34
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My understanding is that visas for Saudi Arabia are difficult to obtain unless you have a sponsor or some sort of pressing need to be there - tourism just doesn't count. So my hunch is that these resorts are aimed initially at Saudi citizens and expats working within the country.
If you got the visa, could you drive there from Jordan?
If you got the visa, could you drive there from Jordan?
Aug 9, 2019, 3:07 am
#35
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 167
I think you are correct. I expect the system to work like other countries that require many people to possess an invitation as part of the visa process (Turkmenistan, Russia, Chad, Algeria to name a few off the top of my head). When you book with Aman, they will work with you to organize all the legal paperwork for your visa to ensure you can enter the country. A reservation gets you a letter of invitation.
If VD doesn't have a deal in that regard with MBS, these properties will struggle to attract visitors from outside the region.
If VD doesn't have a deal in that regard with MBS, these properties will struggle to attract visitors from outside the region.
Aug 9, 2019, 3:27 am
#36
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,600
And I expect this to be much more simplified, possibly even Dubai style. The development could be part of a special economic zone, which then requires less formalities to enter. MBS has been quite vocal about something along the lines of this. High-end tourism with corresponding rates would be the decisive and actual limitation as to who will be able to come. No visas required, just a titanium card! Chances of "excess" are less with Amanjunkies, vs for example something like a W hotel. Sadly we live in a world where I could increasingly visit less and less countries if applying democratic moral standards, so wherever I go I try do not judge and respect local legislation. However, Saudi Arabia is one of the very few countries I have decided a long time ago to never visit, because on all levels I cannot justify it. I have visited many GCC countries and plan to visit many more and never had an issue, though here it is a different story and I refuse to go. I think I recall hearing Saudi beaches are comparable, in part, to the Maldives, so no doubt that Aman has found stunning locations, even in the desert and I could imagine AZ liking purely the setting and location, but making deals with them is a clear message about current values of the management.
Aug 9, 2019, 8:55 am
#37
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Here there and everywhere
Posts: 6,303
My understanding is that visas for Saudi Arabia are difficult to obtain unless you have a sponsor or some sort of pressing need to be there - tourism just doesn't count. So my hunch is that these resorts are aimed initially at Saudi citizens and expats working within the country.
If you got the visa, could you drive there from Jordan?
If you got the visa, could you drive there from Jordan?
Another consideration to bear in mind is Saudi's Crown Prince. Let us not forget how he imprisoned people such as Prince Al Waleed, not that long ago. I would be worried that he could quite easily turn against other hotel owners or hotel guests at a whim, Aman included.
Aug 9, 2019, 9:28 am
#38
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 1,644
I had a driver from FS Amman in Jordan to FS Damascus when it first opened and that was quite an experience, but in those days, Syria was a very cosmopolitan and tolerant country, whereas Saudi Arabia is anything but. We got a Syrian visa at the checkpoint, but I doubt very much if this is possible when entering Saudi!
Another consideration to bear in mind is Saudi's Crown Prince. Let us not forget how he imprisoned people such as Prince Al Waleed, not that long ago. I would be
Another consideration to bear in mind is Saudi's Crown Prince. Let us not forget how he imprisoned people such as Prince Al Waleed, not that long ago. I would be
But back to topic, I do have memories of staying in Aqaba in 1983, having driven down from Palmyra, and the hotel was full of expats from Saudi who had driven up from the border desperate for a cold beer, just like Ice Cold in Alex.
I think I would go to Saudi and these Amans which seem to be in the middle of staggering scenery and historical sites, full of Aurens interest.
Aug 10, 2019, 4:01 am
#40
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Germany
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Aug 10, 2019, 4:07 am
#41
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Location: Germany
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I´m always a fan of optimism but I don´t share yours in this point. I´m convinced even on property it will not be tolerant and (at least) outside a male kissing another male could result in unpleasant reactions. You should never underestimate fanatism.
Aug 12, 2019, 7:36 am
#43
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YYC
Programs: AC 50k 1MM, Marriott LT Titanium Elite
Posts: 3,400
A male shouldn't kiss a female in public in Morocco, but I would have zero issues staying at the Aman there. There is a Grand Canyon sized gulf between the legal, political, human rights, and tolerance associated with Morocco and Saudi Arabia. Not to mention the exceptionally distasteful and disturbing individuals who will profit from Aman Saudi Arabia.
Aug 12, 2019, 9:38 am
#44
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Here there and everywhere
Posts: 6,303
Ah yes, border crossings I have known and loved. Checkpoint Charlie was also fun. I'm looking forward to England into Scotland.
But back to topic, I do have memories of staying in Aqaba in 1983, having driven down from Palmyra, and the hotel was full of expats from Saudi who had driven up from the border desperate for a cold beer, just like Ice Cold in Alex.
I think I would go to Saudi and these Amans which seem to be in the middle of staggering scenery and historical sites, full of Aurens interest.
But back to topic, I do have memories of staying in Aqaba in 1983, having driven down from Palmyra, and the hotel was full of expats from Saudi who had driven up from the border desperate for a cold beer, just like Ice Cold in Alex.
I think I would go to Saudi and these Amans which seem to be in the middle of staggering scenery and historical sites, full of Aurens interest.
Sep 10, 2019, 9:35 am
#45
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: BER
Programs: Amanjunkie, LH SEN
Posts: 750
Aman Bangkok announced
Bangkok Real Estate Company Nai Lert announced together with Aman CEO Doronin, that they will build and open a hotel in the centre of Bangkok called, sic!, Aman Nai Lert, to open in 2022.
Near to the Erawan shopping area, there was huge Swissotel Nai Lert, which is closed now and sold to a hospital company, which plans to convert it to a "wellness hospital". In a very small park next to it, there is Nai Lert Park Heritage home, which is an old teak house with a restaurant and event facilities. So maybe, the Aman will be placed there, inmidst a not very romantic inner city concrete jungle location, but quite close to the shopping malls.
But let's wait for more details and hope for some spectacular architectonic ideas!
https://www.nationthailand.com/property/30376029
Near to the Erawan shopping area, there was huge Swissotel Nai Lert, which is closed now and sold to a hospital company, which plans to convert it to a "wellness hospital". In a very small park next to it, there is Nai Lert Park Heritage home, which is an old teak house with a restaurant and event facilities. So maybe, the Aman will be placed there, inmidst a not very romantic inner city concrete jungle location, but quite close to the shopping malls.
But let's wait for more details and hope for some spectacular architectonic ideas!
https://www.nationthailand.com/property/30376029
Last edited by deer; Sep 10, 2019 at 9:59 am